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Thread: Pdr 101

  1. #1
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    Default Pdr 101

    The first thing you need to do is understand how the meal works. When a panel is formed into it's orriginal shape from the factory, it creates a memory in the metal. This memory stays with the panel. We will start out with understanding the basic idea of a small dent, how to find the tip of your tool, and so on.

    Tools....
    There are so mant tools companies out there, you can buy 1 basic tool to get the general idea with, or make one. They are not that expensive. I will give you a few links if Len will allow, or get a picture of one to him so he can offer it himself. Len?
    You can make a make shift on out of a peice of steel.... You would need it to be about 3 feet long, bend yourself a handle at one end, and round the tip of the other end, some prefer a bullet tip type for starting out. Some say the sharper the better. Then put a 90 degree bend on the last 2 inches of the tool. That will get you a general idea. You can bend it for greater access in dif places.


    Get an old hood you can strap down on a saw horse to practice. You want to start out by learnong how to find the tip of your tool.

    lIGHT IS EVERYTHING. wE USE A FLORESENT LIGHT WITH A LIGHT BOARD, HOME MADE, THEY SELL SEVERAL OUT THERE, BUT WE JUST THREW ONE TOGATHER...http://www.servimg.com/image_preview...=75&u=11766227
    yOU CAN SEE THE GENERAL IDEA OF HOW TO GET THE LIGHT TOGATHER, AND HOW IT REFLECTS ON THE DENT. tHIS WAS A HUGE DENT, AND WE PUSHED FOR PAINT. wE HAVE ABOUT 1/8 IN FILLER IN THE DEEPEST PLACE.. SEE PROPER PREP FOR FILLER.

    Get something to mark on the hood that will wash off, we are going to make targets. Makeseveral small circles, free from where braces are ( we will use a diff tool under the braces) make several x's, and make a few dots. Try to drag your tool across the bottom of the hood to the center of the cercile, then push up, push hard to leave what i like to call an outtie. We will use a knockdown later to take it out. Do not break the paint if you can help it. you are just learnin, so it will happen to most of you. After you hit the corcles with accuracy, move on the the x. Get all four of the tips, and the center of the x, then move on to the dot. When you get that, let me know and we will move forward. You will need an s hook to put in the back side of the hood for leverage. and they also have hood stands out there to buy and everything you need, so if you don't want to fool with handmade...
    Get your target where you can see them in the reflection of light. As you move your tool across the bottom of the panel
    Last edited by 68-chevydoula; 02-28-2008 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #2
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    Now you have probubly been able to find the tip of your tool fairly easily... We move on. You have all these high spots in the hood now. I want you to take a knockdown, most are made from resin, they are cheep, but for the sake of practice, make yourself on maybe from a dowl rod sharpened like a pencil on one end, sand it to where it is a bullet tip style, and I want you to just take a hammer of your choice and in a spot on the hood frewe from bracing, hit it to make a ding in the hood. Try to see the guage of the impact on you tap. Now get a feel for it and start tapping on the outties you made with the tip of your tool. You need to get hand eye cordination skills down before moving on. We will move to a dent after you get this down pat. I can tell you how, but you have to get the feel for it from lots of practice. I have not seen any posts on this, so I don't know how it is going for you yet. I hope someone is trying this out. I did receive several PM on it though, so I will keep moving forward.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the post, I am printing a copy of what you post on PDR and will save them until I get my act together and do my car. Should be in May. I was hit with Hail last summer and have yet to get started on the repair. The hood and trunk both need to be painted because of rock chips on hood and scratches from someone placing a heavy object on the trunk.

    I can buy a wreck and start work on it the day it gets home, but this is my daily driver and I never seem to want to take it out of service to do the cosmetic repairs. That hood will be something I can practice on and if I can’t get them the way I want, well no problem because I was going to use filler anyway. By the way the hood is aluminum so I hope that the dents come out the same as if it were steel.

    There are a total of ten small dents in the two fenders and both quarters. I really want to be able to do them with PDR since they all have subtle factory accent stripes on them that I don’t want to disturb. I have done stripes before and I was never satisfied with my own work, much better if they can be left alone. Thanks again for the post, keep up the good work.

    Bob K

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob K
    Thanks for the post, I am printing a copy of what you post on PDR and will save them until I get my act together and do my car. Should be in May. I was hit with Hail last summer and have yet to get started on the repair. The hood and trunk both need to be painted because of rock chips on hood and scratches from someone placing a heavy object on the trunk.

    I can buy a wreck and start work on it the day it gets home, but this is my daily driver and I never seem to want to take it out of service to do the cosmetic repairs. That hood will be something I can practice on and if I can’t get them the way I want, well no problem because I was going to use filler anyway. By the way the hood is aluminum so I hope that the dents come out the same as if it were steel.

    There are a total of ten small dents in the two fenders and both quarters. I really want to be able to do them with PDR since they all have subtle factory accent stripes on them that I don’t want to disturb. I have done stripes before and I was never satisfied with my own work, much better if they can be left alone. Thanks again for the post, keep up the good work.

    Bob K
    First thing you want to do with that hood is take it off the car, strap it down on a stand with the least amount of obstruction. Maybe on a fold a bench. Those alluminum hood push alot harder than steel, sounds strange, but it springs back alot harder. Not realy a problem though, you just have to push alot further past to get the dent to stay up. We will talk more about that when we actualy get to that part of my posting. The light needs to be at a 45 degree angle to your eyes. Forgot that earlier. When you are repainting a panel, even if you did not get the dent pdr perfict, there is usualy enough mills of finnish to block it out perfict. Make sure you keep a glossy finish of the clear on while you are pdring. You can't fix what you can't see, and if you dull the finnish, it makes it harder to see the dent. On your fenders you will need to pull the head lights & cornering lights most likly, maybe the inner skirts. That will give you good access with about a 30 in 7/16 rod. 30 deg bend ball tip. this same rod will work good on your hood too. Prob the most versitle tool for your box. The pay out on the hail you got is prob enough to buy most of the tools you need to do PDR. Funny that we spend a fortune on bodyshop tools, and these cost as much as one job would make you. LOL In the next lesson we will discuss the methods for pdring the dents. There are also glue pullers and tabs that have the same basic idea as stud gun, alot less severe, and does not hurt the finnish. wE WILL DISCUSS THAT IN FUTURE POSTS AS WELL. Hope this is helpful. IO hope more people ask questions. That will help me make sure i get all the bases covered. For getting under the braces on the hood there is a tool called a whale tail. You might need a 1 in whale tip about 9 in long. You can also round off the sharp corners on flat head screw drivers, and use them for pdr tools. I have evn bent over a butter knife when I started out to get access under bracing. You can make a variety of pushing/prying tools from cheep screwdriver sets, prybars, hood prop rods, just things you have lying around. It is also a must have for a small light weight hammer & a nylon punch (knockdown) The wood one mentioned earlier realy is not very good. You should use a nylon or plastic punch. (knockdown).

  5. #5
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    Here is a picture of a set of 64 tools. This set runs around $3500.00. But in all reality you need just 10 basic tools. I will post a pic of them as soon as I find a good one. I just wanted to give you a general idea of the dif varities. There are way more designs than these, and coustom ones created everyday.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    $3500?!?? What are they made from GOLD? Couldnt you just make your own?


    Thanks,
    Ryan

    "Save the cheap paint for the power-wheels"

    Komplete Kustoms

  7. #7
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    I was just showing an example. Yes you can make your own for the DIY. But for the profesional this is not much considering you can make that in a day with the tools if you are doing hail. But like I said, you do not need all of these. A 10 peice set will do most anything you ever need to do. This is a journeymans hailchaser set. I do not have more than 10-15 prd tools total. A light. Knockdowns. Hood stand. glue tabs & glue puller. I do not have a door glass sheild, but you should have one if you do many door dings. I was just showing what is out there. I forget how much a 10 pc set is. I will find out.

  8. #8
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    Take a rubber mallet and wack the panel free from bracing. You should make a dent that is fairly shallow, and about as big around as a golf ball. get it in the light and mark the sweet spot int the center by using the bulls eye methodFinding the center of the dent. Make your first push there. You should notice that when you push that you can actualy hold the dent in place to seem like it is gone. wHEN YOU RELEASE IT IS STILL THERE. wE WILL WORK CLOCKWISEin a inward spiral with lots & lots of pushes, almost as if you were the second hand on the clock. After each circle is completed, push the sweet spot . each time you will notice it leaving. Start back at 12 o'clock, and go round in a smaller circle this time. .......... till it is gone. each time checking the sweet spot. If you see any high spots, you can stop to knock them down. The only way you will truly get it is hours of practice. I'll post more after someone tells me they tried it.

  9. #9
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    Oct 2006
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    18

    Default Just Wondering

    I have been wanting to ask about this -- like is it something I should try to learn? Or is it a hoax / scam?

    The videos look too good to be true so I figured it's gotta be a scam.

    So my daughter was in for spring break with her 2000 Sebring Convertible and I'm working on the brakes.

    I removed the inner fender plastic to get access back there and "engineered" some home-madeish tools and tried it.

    To me -- it looks like some redneck kicked the panel from behind, but she said she likes it.

    The main thing is that it is MADDENING to try to find a way to get leverage for the tool. I think you need another tool to attach to give good leverage. You must have a consistent firm push-point.

    And secondly -- It sure helps that some of the fenders these days are made with thin steel - hee hee.

    But still, for me, a newbie, it almost took as long as it would have taken to push it out, sand, fill, shoot (maybe an exageration, but not much).

    I'll keep an open mind, though...

    Let me know if anybody else out there has tried it.

    Thanks
    Lee

  10. #10
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    I don't do it myself but I've hired several different PDR guys on several different occasions and found that, like body shops, some are better than others. It's all a matter of having a few of the right tools, a little training and a sensitivity to the job at hand. Just like other auto body and paint work.

    We sell this beginner's kit for $249.50

    loc820.jpg
    • Affordable - a fraction of the price of current PDR sets.
    • Easy to master - training DVD included.
    • Patented stainless steel solid rod construction with EDM lockable swivel tips.
    • A breakthrough in PDR technology.
    • 13 interchangeable stainless and plastic tips w/swivel head action.
    • Replaces 100+ obsolete PDR tools - Magnetic reflector board included.
    • Add a PDR profit center to any automotive repair center.
    You don’t have to be a body man to do PDR work.

  11. #11
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    I have to tell you guys, about four years ago we got a set of about 10 tools, along with an instruction tape. I watched the tape and went to work trying to do it. I have been in this business for thirty years, feel I am an accomplished bodyman, but I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do the PDR, I was a horrible failure at it.

    Four years have now pasted and a few weeks ago I took on the chore of repairing all the dents and dings in used and new parts. I had heard the other guys in the shop peeing and moaning long enough. Every time a new part came in with a little ding they would cry about not haveing "time" to fix it (in other words they feel they should get bonus money) and they made such a big deal out of tiny dings I just started doing everyones. Anyway, I was using this PDR kit to bring up the damage so I then could use the paint and primer that was on the door to surface it. It worked like a charm, I was doing many many panels without applying a spot of putty or anything.

    Then all of a sudden, I found myself working out a ding only to find that when I went to sand it I couldn't even see where the darn thing was!

    I am now planning on getting some tools of my own and really taking on this job in the shop. We have a PDR guy come around once in a while, he did two cars this past Friday alone. Darn it, I am proud as heck of myself and it is a new challenge for me.

    Yes, you can do some amazing things using PDR.

    Brian

    Tip from a newbe: One of the first things I do when I go to find the spot is to lay the bar across the outside of the panel and mark the spot on the bar at the hole I am sticking it thru with one of my hands, like marking a ruler. I then stick it into the hole up to where I am holding the rod (marking it) and wham, I am starting out pretty close to the dent.

  12. #12
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    Default Great post!

    Quote Originally Posted by MARTINSR
    I have to tell you guys, about four years ago we got a set of about 10 tools, along with an instruction tape. I watched the tape and went to work trying to do it. I have been in this business for thirty years, feel I am an accomplished bodyman, but I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do the PDR, I was a horrible failure at it.

    Four years have now pasted and a few weeks ago I took on the chore of repairing all the dents and dings in used and new parts. I had heard the other guys in the shop peeing and moaning long enough. Every time a new part came in with a little ding they would cry about not haveing "time" to fix it (in other words they feel they should get bonus money) and they made such a big deal out of tiny dings I just started doing everyones. Anyway, I was using this PDR kit to bring up the damage so I then could use the paint and primer that was on the door to surface it. It worked like a charm, I was doing many many panels without applying a spot of putty or anything.

    Then all of a sudden, I found myself working out a ding only to find that when I went to sand it I couldn't even see where the darn thing was!

    I am now planning on getting some tools of my own and really taking on this job in the shop. We have a PDR guy come around once in a while, he did two cars this past Friday alone. Darn it, I am proud as heck of myself and it is a new challenge for me.

    Yes, you can do some amazing things using PDR.

    Brian

    Tip from a newbe: One of the first things I do when I go to find the spot is to lay the bar across the outside of the panel and mark the spot on the bar at the hole I am sticking it thru with one of my hands, like marking a ruler. I then stick it into the hole up to where I am holding the rod (marking it) and wham, I am starting out pretty close to the dent.
    Brian
    You talked me into purchasing a PDR kit. I have a couple questions....

    Are you drilling holes for most access? If so what are you using to make the hole and are you plugging them when you're finished? Got any pictures?

    I see a new "Basics of Basics" coming

  13. #13
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    Actually Len, I am only "practicing" so I am only doing the very easy ones. Most are on panels that are on a stand and disassembled so there is not a whole lot of things in the way.

    But to answer your question on holes, there are tons of holes you never thought of. I go through the power window wiring hole, drop the latch out, small drain holes under the door, thru the top where the window goes. On fenders, just drop the inner fender out. Being a bodyman pulling things off comes naturally everyday, so I make a lot of access by just removing things. Like I said, these are largely on panels that are getting painted anyway. I am just "playing" with no expecations to speak of. I don't know, taking the pressure off and knowing that I can screw up here and there and it doesn't matter has really freed me up to learn something.

    Brian

  14. #14
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    I am kind of doing the same thing. I have a daughter’s car for a week and I said I would fix up three door dings in her right rear door. Two small dings and one good solid hit from a bumper. I was working from what 68-chevyman posted further up on this thread. The two small dings are out without a trace. I just removed the inside panel, found them and marked the dent with a pencil and went to work carefully pushing on the pencil mark. They disappeared with just hand pressure from the inside, maybe 30 applications.

    I was feeling like I am making progress with this process. I then spoiled it by getting too greedy with the larger dent. I used a heave bar through an opening in the inner door frame as a fulcrum point. I pushed hard and the bar turned and made a mark that actually broke the paint on the outside. So today I have the sander out and I am going back to the traditional methods for that bigger dent. I did learn not to tri to get so much with one push. I’ll try it again on the next one. I can see that a lot of practice is needed.

    Bob K

  15. #15
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    Sory it has been so long since my last post. Sounds like some of you are trying it out. I am glad to hear it. Bigger dents need to be split up into smaller dents that form the whole. Find the sweet spot, there will be more than one. Find the one that wants to give way the easiest, then work it. Then move to the next spot in it. Make sure to knok down the highs, and bring up the lows. Find the crown that is holding the dent in place. You can even take a slapping file, wrap it in tape, and tap it with a hammer over the crown. See how that woks for you. It has hailed in our area, and we are swamped. I'll try to post more now that we are getting back in a groove.

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