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Thread: Plug/Rosette welds

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
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    22

    Default Plug/Rosette welds

    Plug welds 5/16

    18 gauge

    0.23/CO2 26-30psi

    e formation and sweeping left to right.

    I think I'm moving too fast, but also deal with hand/arm tremors. Last time I welded was 30 years ago. I warped my practice coupons but can make more, still I think I need to work slower. Practicing to get better at plug welding before actually welding in cab plates and rocker panels for my truck.

    From top to bottom

    ~54A,16.8+2V
    ~55A,17.2+4V
    ~56A,18.2+4V

    Increase Amperage?

    Any other suggestions?





  2. #2
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    I am using MIG/CO2, 0.023 solid wire which is recommended. not stick.

    18ga on 18ga in these sample coupons


    Amperages are from bottom to top in photos below, welding from right to left.



    68A, 17.6+1V
    3x 45∠

    68A, 18.4(17.6)+3V
    3x 45∠

    72A, 18.0+0V
    2x 45∠ sides
    1x 90∠ middle

    84A, 18.9(18.5)-1V
    top far right two 45∠ and 90∠

    84A, 19.3(18.5)+1V
    top far left at 90∠


    The last two that I welded top left two seem to be nicer. Welding at a 90∠ seems to allow me to follow the flange better, not sure if this is preferred over 45. I do have more build up with 45 over 90.

    Also that eastwood plugweld nozzle tip is a piece of junk, it's more for 3/16 plugs and not the common 3/8 and 5/16 plugs.










  3. #3
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    Started from outside, instead of inside, and the puddle somewhat falls into the middle though I need to fill it. I guess it's not hot enough? What do you think about the top two center welds?


    This entire sample coupon is at

    86A, 19.3+0V









  4. #4
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    continue from last post




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    47,716

    Default

    Are you using argon/CO2 or just CO2?

    Here's a cut and paste from Google
    Co2 is a more challenging gas to use on thin material and not all Mig Welders perform well with 100% Co2 as a shielding gas! An Argon/Co2 mix produces superior results as the arc is softer and smoother with the resulting weld deposit slightly softer and more malleable than where pure Co2 is used.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Are you using argon/CO2 or just CO2?

    Here's a cut and paste from Google
    100% C02. MIG is C02. MAG is 75/25. I'm not using 75/25 and have no desire to. The only difference is spattering and that is coming from experienced old-school autobody techs. I don't get much spatter anyway, not as much as many complain about. Yes, I do have to watch for heat and be patient. In this day and age you don't need experienced old-school techs. Google has all the answers. lol.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2005
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    47,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bandaids View Post
    100% C02. MIG is C02. MAG is 75/25. I'm not using 75/25 and have no desire to. The only difference is spattering and that is coming from experienced old-school autobody techs. I don't get much spatter anyway, not as much as many complain about. Yes, I do have to watch for heat and be patient. In this day and age you don't need experienced old-school techs. Google has all the answers. lol.
    Post a link or a cut and paste to your opinion.

    Here's another source of information...
    The shielding gases used to weld different metals are also different. For welding steels, common gases used include 5-25% carbon dioxide, and a mixture of argon and 2-5% oxygen. LINK

  8. #8
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Post a link or a cut and paste to your opinion.

    Here's another source of information...

    not opinions. they are statements from REAL autobody techs and fabricators. I have no idea what you are going on about. My statements have been very clear.

  9. #9
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    This sample coupon is painted with rust-stop on front and back dried over night. Removed material with flat 5/16 bit with both plates aligned. Rust-stop was left on both sides of the top plate and bottom for the first two rows, the second two rows I removed rust-stop from the back side of the bottom plate.

    Settings from top to bottom:
    80A, 18.4(22.4)+10V
    85A, 19.1(23.1)+10V
    82A, 18.5(22.5)+10V
    83A, 18.7(22.7)+10V








  10. #10
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    This sample coupon is painted with rust-stop on front and back and dried over night. Removed material with flat 5/16 bit with both plates aligned. I left rust-stop on both between the layers but removed from the top of the coupon and back side of the bottom coupon.

    Settings entire plate

    83A, 18.7(22.7)+10V






    Wire brushed




  11. #11
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    (Continued from preivous post)

    DA







    83A, 18.7(22.7)+10V, seems to lay the metal down and closes itself mostly. Also no high profile as in previous tests. All are welcome to point out any issues.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bandaids View Post
    100% C02. MIG is C02. MAG is 75/25. I'm not using 75/25 and have no desire to. The only difference is spattering and that is coming from experienced old-school autobody techs. I don't get much spatter anyway, not as much as many complain about. Yes, I do have to watch for heat and be patient. In this day and age you don't need experienced old-school techs. Google has all the answers. lol.
    Splatter isn't the only difference. C25 wets out better and has narrower penetration - which likely does imitation spot welds easier than C100 when you want a small flatter bead. I use c25 for autobody projects, and get some pretty nice imitation spot welds without much thought or practice, using my tapped transformer MIG. I'm sure you can get there with the C100, you'll need to spend more time practicing. For me its a no brainer, using c25 is less overall labor/materials for the same end result.

    I'd like to convert to TIG as there are many advantages over MIG for sheet metal work, but I have not had enough practice to apply it to autobody projects.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
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    2,113

    Default

    i use c25 as well. never had any issues. i'm using .030 wire in mine and my volt settings are quite a bit lower than the ones listed. there were a lot of pictures, a few too many for me to really critique them all. some look pretty good, others, not horrible, but could be better. more spatter than i'd like to see. might play with the arc length a bit.
    i typically plug weld at 90 degrees, usually around 16.5-17 volts. i run the tip out of the torch nozzle by about 3/16 too, so i can control the arc length better. gas at 20 cfm.
    i see a lot of the welds shown to have pretty big craters, could be from too much heat. could also be from moving the torch away too quickly after letting off the trigger.
    pretty much all of those welds will hold, so i'm wondering what exactly you're looking for. a specific look to the finished weld before doing any sanding?
    are you clamping the metal as close to the plug as possible?
    i will also tig weld these if i have small stuff on the bench, or something that seems like it wants it. might just be a mood thing.
    b marler

  14. #14
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    I'll have to try C25 sometime, but for now, it's 100 co2. The high settings could be the length of the extension cable 20' that I'm using and causing a vdrop.

    I don't know how accurate my flowmeter is compared to the dual gauge regulator but changed from ~20 cfh to 15-18 cfh.

    I'll have to get the torch in closer since most of the welds were done probably 1/2 to 3/4 inch away from the material. That's probably the reason for the cratering and in the first few samples, also I had a fan 10' away somewhat blowing in the direction. I definitely need 2.0/2.5 cheater glasses.

    I never tig welded and have the torch and fittings but no tungsten, one reason I want to try c25 later. I hear it's much easier than MIG.

    The main reason for posting is for experienced welders to provide me with information on my technique. Thanks. These photos are the first welds that I have completed in the thirty years since I have last picked up a torch. Still learning the techniques. What I would like to see is a perfect string of laps around the perimeter of the hole and a pool in the center. It's somewhat difficult with hand tremors, lol.

    I-Car/AWS has some pretty useful information that I've been reading up on and a few Youtube channels like Fitzee's Fabrications and Bad Chad Customs.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2022
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    Default

    A lot of heat in the plate. I tend to do the first two outside first then wait a minute or two to do the middle. I keep the nozzle on the weld until the weld goes dark. Also blow some air on it after pulling the gun away... some have recommended a damp rag and some recommend not blowing air and no damp rag and letting it air cool.

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