Advice / Help with Shaping?

[MidnightOilJK]

i love that. i love when someone points out something so simple that you think to yourself, how can it be that i never thought of that?
thanks for posting.
i'm assuming you cut those on a table saw right?

correct, a table saw, you can make the cuts closer together in the middle then spread them a little further apart as you go to the ends, this will will help with not having a "hard spot" in the middle of the block on heavy curves.

[MidnightOilJK]

How did you do that, did you cut those slots in yourself by hand? My skills are limited to what I know which is pretty much nothing, reading threads on this forum is where my learning curve starts

Your ones look really good, can you still use them on flat parts perfectly fine? Thinking why Dura Blocks never made them with slots from factory.

I have ordered Motor Guard MB and SB hand blocks also which are softer than the dura blocks I currently have. Having the right tool for the job eh, my wife thinks everything that comes in for me is £12 and bought really cheeeepp, like the budgie...

VJ

I would not recommend them on flat panels, i have 1 1/2 tool carts full of blocks. plexi blocks (like linier blocking but i made myself) Durablock composite, 1" X 3" aluminum blocks some with Velcro, I have a 10ft x 6" wide block i use on walls. ill take some pics and post if i get time.

[tuffgong]

Hi Ronf, that make sense to me. I am so glad you did not advice taking it back down to metal as that would of broke me I think. I already took it back to near bare metal when I started (using a DA). One good thing I guess is the filler I have been using thus far has fibre strands mixed in (think its referred to as bridging filler). Same stuff as EVERCOAT FIBER TECH just branded for INDASSA I believe. Max Build is 6mm according to the Indassa website. The Fuel Filler area is probably 6mm thick easy however this will be coming down once I start sanding again with the right tools and method learned from previous posts.

In this order my plan was to initially,

1 – use Indassa Autofill to get my rough shape, whether that was part sculpting or using the shape of the metal as a guide; I now know more than I did 3 three weeks ago 😊
2 – Next use Upol Fantastic Filler to refine shape of the tank;
3 – Epoxy primer to protect it all (U-Pol S2025 High Build 2k Primer);
4 – Apply spray on High Build Primer and get flat (HB Body 989 2k 4:1 Epoxy Primer Surfacer);
5 – Seal with Epoxy again, flat, and get ready for paint (one of the two products above can act as a Sealer also);

VJ

[tuffgong]

I would not recommend them on flat panels, i have 1 1/2 tool carts full of blocks. plexi blocks (like linier blocking but i made myself) Durablock composite, 1" X 3" aluminum blocks some with Velcro, I have a 10ft x 6" wide block i use on walls. ill take some pics and post if i get time.

Thank you MidnightOilJK..!

[Ronf]

Hi Ronf, that make sense to me. I am so glad you did not advice taking it back down to metal as that would of broke me I think. I already took it back to near bare metal when I started (using a DA). One good thing I guess is the filler I have been using thus far has fibre strands mixed in (think its referred to as bridging filler). Same stuff as EVERCOAT FIBER TECH just branded for INDASSA I believe. Max Build is 6mm according to the Indassa website. The Fuel Filler area is probably 6mm thick easy however this will be coming down once I start sanding again with the right tools and method learned from previous posts.

In this order my plan was to initially,

1 – use Indassa Autofill to get my rough shape, whether that was part sculpting or using the shape of the metal as a guide; I now know more than I did 3 three weeks ago 😊
2 – Next use Upol Fantastic Filler to refine shape of the tank;
3 – Epoxy primer to protect it all (U-Pol S2025 High Build 2k Primer);
4 – Apply spray on High Build Primer and get flat (HB Body 989 2k 4:1 Epoxy Primer Surfacer);
5 – Seal with Epoxy again, flat, and get ready for paint (one of the two products above can act as a Sealer also);

VJ

Keep us posted and provide pics as you go. If you get stuck don't panic just post pics and ?'s.

"I am so glad you did not advice taking it back down to metal as that would of broke me I think", I have to say you need patience, always look to your end goal where you can say "I did this" as too give you something to look forward too. If you plan on doing future projects now is not the time to learn bad habits. I have stripped entire cars back to metal after body work and painting was completed because it didn't go as I envisioned (I absolutely admit I am anal and OCD for detail). As you are just learning this you will have costly (time and/or money) mistakes along the way, If this tank re-strip would have done you in, you wouldn't want to be in my shop..lol. For me it is either right or it isn't. Develope a similar attitude and your work will be outstanding and something to look forward too. As I said "look to your end result" as it will bring confidence, pride and understanding.

[tuffgong]

Will do Ronf, thanks again for the top tips (and everyone else). Really really appreciate it!! Definitely gives me confidence to keep going. I am working my way up to being a perfectionist (with patience)

Many thanks,
VJ

[tuffgong]

Had a delivery

DSC_0173.jpg

So out of the MB and SB, which block should I be starting off with..? SB first and then over to the MB ?

Many thanks,

VJ

[Len]

The problem with a flexible block is that it doesn't span over the low areas it tends to follow the shapes of the surface. Don't get me wrong flexible blocks have their value but they need to be used after the basic shape is achieved.

Sometimes you can use a semi-ridged block that can bend with the shape but still span over the low spots.

[tuffgong]

The problem with a flexible block is that it doesn't span over the low areas it tends to follow the shapes of the surface. Don't get me wrong flexible blocks have their value but they need to be used after the basic shape is achieved.

Sometimes you can use a semi-ridged block that can bend with the shape but still span over the low spots.

Hi there Len - Sorry for the late reply, I do also have the stiff Durablocks. I find the stiffer blocks cut the filler down faster or maybe its the way i am applying pressure. I seem to be switching between various blocks as the 'feel and noise' is different, the stiffer blocks cut differently. I am not experienced enough to know when to switch between the blocks to get to the end goal. I have three to choose from, two from this new kit and one from the Dura block kit to finish this project (the long skinny one). Its starting to get cold here so not sure how long I can take working outside Would it be a good idea to bring the tank into the warm \ dry or would it be fine in a cold garage outside?

Many thanks,
VJ

[Ronf]

To my knowledge fillers are not affected by temperature, however I certainly wouldn't use them in a freezing environment. On your blocks, the best way to explain the correct block to use is "use the stiffest block possible that will conform to the shape of sheet metal". Your correct, on your tank you will be constantly changing block types so learn to load up several variations of blocks with the same grit for quick change out. On the extreme bulbous areas you can shape that area with the SB1 or a round Dura-Block AF4404 (these really come in handy on severe bulbus areas but not an absolute necessity), let the sandpaper do the work (use the correct grit and don't over do the hand pressure), on the top flatter area stay with either the HB1 or the Dura-Block AF4400. As a note, you can cut any of these blocks down to a better fit for your tank. Lastly, I think Len had mentioned doing a side profile that angles down the long axis sides, this is dead on. It will help to keep the shape of tank and provides a longer sand stroke. Remember, don't short stroke your sanding as you will develop divots and scalloping.

[Phil V]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I think you guys are waaay over complicating sanding filler and primer. I use mainly two Hutchins hand sanding boards (aluminum shoe with wood backer) in two different lengths. One short one and one long one. Not all that complicated. I also have a long plastic sanding board with handles that is semi flexible. i rarely use that tool. like years apart that it's used.

Len mentioned earlier in this thread about sanding diagonal and I fully agree with that even on surfaces that aren't flat. Sand lower left to upper right and vice versa. You hand and your eyes will tell you if it's not the right contour that you want. And like Len said, guide coat is critical.

Don't mean to sound like an ass but you're not building a space shuttle, it's a bike gas tank.

[MidnightOilJK]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I think you guys are waaay over complicating sanding filler and primer. I use mainly two Hutchins hand sanding boards (aluminum shoe with wood backer) in two different lengths. One short one and one long one. Not all that complicated. I also have a long plastic sanding board with handles that is semi flexible. i rarely use that tool. like years apart that it's used.

Len mentioned earlier in this thread about sanding diagonal and I fully agree with that even on surfaces that aren't flat. Sand lower left to upper right and vice versa. You hand and your eyes will tell you if it's not the right contour that you want. And like Len said, guide coat is critical.

Don't mean to sound like an ass but you're not building a space shuttle, it's a bike gas tank.

I partly agree, but the OP is not the only one reading this thread, so someone reading may find the answer he is looking for, that's what people come here for.

[Ronf]

I partly agree, but the OP is not the only one reading this thread, so someone reading may find the answer he is looking for, that's what people come here for.

Phil,

Absolutely agree, however you have 4+ decades of experience and know exactly what it takes to sand out a project as soon as you look at it. Just as Midnightoil stated there are several that come here to learn and I feel it only right I give or show them options as they progress through their project. My thinking is they may want to tackle future projects, so I try to give them a bit more info than they may need. "Flame you", no way my friend would I ever consider doing such, I too highly value your expertise.

[tuffgong]

I feel like sponge at the moment taking this all in, this is all fairly new to me. The more I know the better chance I have of competing what I started and maybe passing on my own experience to someone else. I thank everyone that has chipped in thus far as its super helpful, really really appreciated it, thank you! I find sometimes (most times) that having something explained in a different way can help with grasping the technique or learning how to do it.

Speaking of space shuttles, last week I was planning on making a Rocket Ship out of cardboard with my daughter however she opted for a Castle instead I had printed NASA logos and had a silver blanket for making the space suit also...! Nothing. Dad let make a castle, she said

Back on point, there is a bit more to the tank then the shape. The fuel filler area is next as it has a nice radius cut around the edge which I will have to contend with once I am happy with other bits

Many thanks, again everyone,
Cheers,

VJ

[tuffgong]

Hey guys - Hope all is well with everyone? The weather here is warming up I shall be be starting my tank again this year, hopefully with a vision of completing it. Its been a good few months so had to re-read everything again as a refresher

All the best now,
Cheers,

VJ