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Thread: 3M 05954 Super Duty Rubbing Compound

  1. #16
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    len and s-c have it right. over reduction of all the layers, tint the clear, ( i think you did that) and then slow clear and reducer on top to let it melt real good. that's a recipe i'd follow. i think i'd stay with the blending solvent in the end instead of straight reducer.
    i hardly think we're telling you anything you don't already know though, but sometimes it's good to bounce ideas right?
    b marler

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    Oh… I get it, a learning session, kidding me, your the master...

    Well, I hate to say, but I believe that feathered edge is and always will be the failure point of the repair. I personally would not do that, that's for the collision guys, you know, quick & dirty.



    I’m wondering if this is making it more difficult to blend / hide the feather edge?

    By this I mean the DC3000 has such a fast flash & dry time that it doesn’t stay wet long enough to melt into the existing paint if at all.

    The key is to soften the existing paint slightly, so try the opposite of what you are doing by using slow reducers & activators so the finish clear has a chance to stay wet longer and melt in.

    Just a thought… might be worth a try
    Looking back now I do believe the DC3000 played a part in fighting this repair and was a bad move on my part. Remember my thinking is/was for future repairs to a tri coat. I use the DC3000 a lot on 2 stage repairs with absolutely no problems but just as Len stated and I have always over reduced them. For what ever reason at the time of this repair I didn't over reduce this repair. Now going to strip and re-shoot the fender.
    Last edited by Ronf; 03-10-2021 at 03:42 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    len and s-c have it right. over reduction of all the layers, tint the clear, ( i think you did that) and then slow clear and reducer on top to let it melt real good. that's a recipe i'd follow. i think i'd stay with the blending solvent in the end instead of straight reducer.
    i hardly think we're telling you anything you don't already know though, but sometimes it's good to bounce ideas right?
    Yep, spot on as always only I'm struggling with this tri coat repair and knew this day would come about. Just can't figure out what my thinking was at the time of this repair by not over reducing the repair shot products...geez. I let this tri coat get into my head, especially being a Ford Ruby Red that is known to be a difficult repair. At least I am going to keep telling myself that.
    Last edited by Ronf; 03-10-2021 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #19
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    Default Len

    Len,

    I am going to strip this fender and start over. However for my knowledge on this and for future tri coat repairs would you have pigmented any coat/s of clear beyond the pigmented and pearled mid coat on a tri coat deep metallic red for a REPAIR, regardless of the over reduction of products shot onto the repair? This finish comes out almost like a candied red when the inner coat carries a red pigment and pearl mid coat prior to the CC shot . For a cut in repair I'm thinking if I tinted the clear in the least amount it may shadow in the repair. Your thoughts?

    I need to learn something from this.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Len,

    I am going to strip this fender and start over. However for my knowledge on this and for future tri coat repairs would you have pigmented any coat/s of clear beyond the pigmented and pearled mid coat on a tri coat deep metallic red for a REPAIR, regardless of the over reduction of products shot onto the repair? This finish comes out almost like a candied red when the inner coat carries a red pigment and pearl mid coat prior to the CC shot . For a cut in repair I'm thinking if I tinted the clear in the least amount it may shadow in the repair. Your thoughts?

    I need to learn something from this.
    For my first blended clear I'd slightly tint the clear but only slightly then apply a no tint clear on top, blend it out with over-reduction then straight reducer along the edge. Marler has it right, the slower reducer and hardeners will help eliminate any breaking back.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    For my first blended clear I'd slightly tint the clear but only slightly then apply a no tint clear on top, blend it out with over-reduction then straight reducer along the edge. Marler has it right, the slower reducer and hardeners will help eliminate any breaking back.
    Thank you my friends for the help. I am able to walk away with some great info for future repairs which is all I ever wanted to do and have put all this info into my notes/pics for a later day repair. Fender has now been blocked with 320, 600 and 800 wet and ready to re-shoot. I let this Ruby Red tri coat get into my head and made several amateur mistakes. live and learn with the help of your friends. Again, I thank you all! Fender will be re-shot in the AM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Thank you my friends for the help. I am able to walk away with some great info for future repairs which is all I ever wanted to do and have put all this info into my notes/pics for a later day repair. Fender has now been blocked with 320, 600 and 800 wet and ready to re-shoot. I let this Ruby Red tri coat get into my head and made several amateur mistakes. live and learn with the help of your friends. Again, I thank you all! Fender will be re-shot in the AM.
    You want to be sure that you apply the same number of mid-coats to get a match.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    You want to be sure that you apply the same number of mid-coats to get a match.
    Len,

    Going to start from fresh with sealer, bc, mid etc.. Product build up won't effect fitment for this particular part (one of the reasons I chose it). I have my spray out cards for a 3-2-4 spray out comparison through all stages. I just happened to pick this particle panel to gain knowledge for tri coat repair. Thanks again for your help my friend!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Len,

    Going to start from fresh with sealer, bc, mid etc.. Product build up won't effect fitment for this particular part (one of the reasons I chose it). I have my spray out cards for a 3-2-4 spray out comparison through all stages. I just happened to pick this particle panel to gain knowledge for tri coat repair. Thanks again for your help my friend!
    Oh I thought that you had to match surrounding panels.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Oh I thought that you had to match surrounding panels.
    Len,

    I do have to match the surrounding panels and body. I'm hoping a fresh re-spray on the fender using my original spray out cards (10 cards in all) too compare and match the progress to the original shot of 1 coat of sealer, 3 coats of base, 2 coats of mid and 4 coats of clear this won't be a problem. Are you thinking it will be? I know these should be shot together as I originally did but I hope I will not have to strip down and re-shoot about 10 panels (fenders, running boards and 4 part folding hood) to get a good match.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Len,

    I do have to match the surrounding panels and body. I'm hoping a fresh re-spray on the fender using my original spray out cards (10 cards in all) too compare and match the progress to the original shot of 1 coat of sealer, 3 coats of base, 2 coats of mid and 4 coats of clear this won't be a problem. Are you thinking it will be? I know these should be shot together as I originally did but I hope I will not have to strip down and re-shoot about 10 panels (fenders, running boards and 4 part folding hood) to get a good match.
    if anyone can do it, you can. you have the cards to compare, and that's a plus. your other variables are fairly tightly controlled as well. it will be mounted the same way you did it originally too. i think your chances are very good. actually i half expected to see new pictures by now. the rate you get stuff done is amazing to me.
    b marler

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    if anyone can do it, you can. you have the cards to compare, and that's a plus. your other variables are fairly tightly controlled as well. it will be mounted the same way you did it originally too. i think your chances are very good. actually i half expected to see new pictures by now. the rate you get stuff done is amazing to me.
    Marler,

    I really appreciate your encouragement! Having little experience with tri coat I let this get into my head. The fender is ready for a respray. I'm actually not too worried about matching the panels considering I have all my spray out cards that show paint mix info (I mix by gram weight), which gun and tip I used along the way, Sun gun for hue matching, etc. as I go. Ford Ruby Red tri coat is known to be a hard shot, just as Phil V stated "Ford Ruby Red tri stage is a bitch to blend. I'll let it go at that".

    However I can't seem to leave things alone. I've always been curious if a stone chip or a short length deep scratch (maybe under 3-4") repair might be accomplished with an air brush if the panel/repair area is properly prepped. Since I painted the underside of all 4 fenders (less the mid tinted pearl coat) this gave me the perfect canvas to practice on with an air brush. This morning I also shot 4 new color card panels to practice on with the air brush for stone chip and scratch repair. I wanted to leave my original cards pristine for future use.

    Several weeks ago I contacted Paasche and posed this question to them (I have an Paasche Master air brush and Central pneumatic Airbrush compressor with #3, #5 and #8 tips). They gave me a wealth of info for air brushing (evidently the Paasche tip number doesn't correspond to mm size and are much larger, at least for Paasche). Paasche stated my #5 tip is equivalent to a 1.003 tip and will carry metallic. So I've been playing with the #5 and 8 tips and over reducing the materials. If nothing else I once again get to learn and build on my knowledge base. Hopefully by this evening fender will be done..lol. Damn why can't I just leave things alone.

    Anybody ever tried an air brush for small chip repairs?
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  13. #28
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    Default Chip Repair

    I find that a chip needs to be feathered to be repaired properly and after it's feathered it's too large for the airbrush to do a good job.


  14. #29

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    I have noticed when I try to match the color on a panel that I've painted with my big gun
    using an airbrush or even a "touch-up" gun that it doesn't match for some strange reason.
    I suspect it's the atomization of the smaller sprayers, that it's finer.
    It may work well for non metallic paints but I always go back with my bigger gun
    to get it right.

    And I've never been able to keep a chip repair small, I don't even try to anymore.

  15. #30
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    Default Just TOO MANY good buddy!

    Quote Originally Posted by JCCLARK View Post
    I have noticed when I try to match the color on a panel that I've painted with my big gun
    using an airbrush or even a "touch-up" gun that it doesn't match for some strange reason.
    I suspect it's the atomization of the smaller sprayers, that it's finer.
    It may work well for non metallic paints but I always go back with my bigger gun
    to get it right.

    And I've never been able to keep a chip repair small, I don't even try to anymore.
    Just TOO MANY VARIABLES we work with!

    Don't have anything to say about your sprayguns or the results you mentioned. I use my TEKNA (full size gun) and crank it accordingly. There really is no right - there is no wrong - but what works for us!

    I agree with you on the chips and refer anyone to the picture display LEN posted and that's the way it is (for me) and I see no other way around it.

    You know, that's what drives me WILD about door dings. PEOPLE have absolutely NO perception of what it takes to fix that, "oh, it's just a little thing"!

    Carry on kind sir and may the weekend be a happy one for you!

    Henry

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