TheCoatingStore.com

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Getting started tools for a home garage beginner

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    5

    Question Getting started tools for a home garage beginner

    Hello everyone. This is my first post.

    I'm restoring my car right now. Fortunately, it doesn't need too much rust repair but it has does some small dents and orange peeling.

    Right now, I'm working on the undercarriage and wheel wells.

    I've started on one wheel well and I'm trying to remove the infamous rubber undercoating
    My method is to use an oscillating tool with scraper attachment and a heat gun. It looks pretty clean underneath, but I made a few scuffs to the bare metal. I have to remove the strut to scrape the rest off. After that, I'm thinking of wiping everything down with a solvent and then I'm thinking of filling the bare spots with putty.
    I'm not sure if this is the right way to do this... but this is the paint forum so I'll continue on with my paint question. (Can I ask it in the filler forum?)

    After the paint is clean, I'd like to paint it green to match my body's colour and also have good rust protection. I read Henry's post in an old thread
    about using ZR as the base coat. I'm thinking of doing either that or an epoxy primer and putting a top coat on it after (no idea which). It is my daily driver and I do live in the Canadian rust belt , and I didn't even know you could go without using rubber until recently. Any thoughts are welcome!

    I want to do a good job so I'm considering getting a paint gun. I hope I can use it for other stuff around my house too.

    For now, I definitely want to paint my wheel wells. I also have to repaint my bumper and I'm hoping I can get to that later. And get to some rust spots. Could I use the gun instead of touch-up pen?

    I'm completely new to painting but eager to learn I hope the money and time put in doing things the right way will be worth it over rattling! (Is it?)

    Any recommendations for tools to get started?

    Thanks!

    P.S. I read an old thread New Painter and it seems people generally say: you get what you pay for.
    Also to check out the DVD. I think I will but I just wanted to ask here first!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    47,716

    Default

    If you're removing the rubberized undercoat the best tool we have is The Stripper but if you don't want to spend the money on that you can use a heat gun or torch to soften the coating then scrape or wire brush it off.


    As far as painting goes the best guns start around $400 and go up from there. I'd recommend that you use a low cost gun for primer and keep your good gun for color and clear.

    You can use Zero Rust or a decent epoxy primer prior to painting. A filler or filler primer is normally only needed to fill low spots and a filler primer can be guide coated and block sanded if you want to make the surface perfect before painting.

    If you have questions let us know and I'm sure there are several people here that can give you their way of doing things.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Hi Len, thanks for the reply.

    I just bought the Dremel oscillator for this job, so I'm going to keep on scraping

    I think I'm going to look for a 1.3 or 1.4 tip for base/clear, and 1.8 tip for primer. And need to buy a compressor.

    Does this look ok?

    Painting Steps;
    0. Get the area completely clean and dry.
    1. Use the 1.8 tip gun. Spray it with an epoxy primer or rust converter.
    2. Wait.
    3. Use the 1.4 tip gun. Spray it with a colour topcoat.


    Questions
    a. What do you suggest for topcoat? Looking for something that will protect against rocks (no plastic liners on my wheel wells) and hold up to the snow. Should the colour paint be the final coat?
    b. How many coats of primer (step 1)?
    c. How many coats of topcoat (step 3)?

    Thanks again.
    Al

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    47,716

    Default

    Painting Steps;
    0. Get the area completely clean and dry.
    1. Use the 1.8 tip gun. Spray it with an epoxy primer or rust converter.
    In most cases epoxy primer can be sprayed using a 1.4 tip and rust converter is used in a pump sprayer but it all depends on the products used.
    2. Wait.
    The "re-coat window" varies with different products and depends on the temperature. I usually wait until the primer dries to the touch before applying top coats.
    3. Use the 1.4 tip gun. Spray it with a colour topcoat.
    Again, it depends on the paint products but most can be sprayed using a 1.4 tip.


    Questions

    a. What do you suggest for topcoat? Looking for something that will protect against rocks (no plastic liners on my wheel wells) and hold up to the snow. Should the colour paint be the final coat?
    Normally we spray wheel wells using Black Zero Rust because it's easy to re-coat if it gets damaged
    b. How many coats of primer (step 1)?
    When using epoxy primer we normally apply two medium coats.

    c. How many coats of topcoat (step 3)?
    It all depends on how well your paint covers, in most cases three coats will do the job.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerAl View Post
    Hello everyone. This is my first post...

    ...I want to do a good job so I'm considering getting a paint gun. I hope I can use it for other stuff around my house too.

    For now, I definitely want to paint my wheel wells. I also have to repaint my bumper and I'm hoping I can get to that later. And get to some rust spots. Could I use the gun instead of touch-up pen?

    I'm completely new to painting but eager to learn I hope the money and time put in doing things the right way will be worth it over rattling! (Is it?)

    Any recommendations for tools to get started?

    Thanks!

    P.S. I read an old thread New Painter and it seems people generally say: you get what you pay for.
    Also to check out the DVD. I think I will but I just wanted to ask here first!
    Trucker Al, welcome and you are at the right place to learn - trust me as these guys helped me out with all my dumb questions just a few years ago and I can put out some stuff that I would not have believed just a few years ago. It does take time and you need to be able to make a mistake, shake it off (sand it off in my case, well cases) and redo it.

    This is an investment, an addictive hobby that takes time and money, so you need to ask yourself if this is a one time deal or a hobby that you want to add to your toolbox. If it is a one time deal and you don't have the materials and tools, then just find someone that does and pay them.

    Now, things that I have learned as a fellow rookie weekender hack (my opinions only):

    Start with a DeVilbiss Finish Line gun with the three different tips, also purchase an #1 (conventional) air cap. Do NOT get the "Starting Line" gun, Pure trash.
    Use a 1.3 tip for BC/CC
    Clean your gun EVERY time!
    Get a good air filter system
    Get a good compressor
    Practice on something that you don't mind redoing - possibly multiple times (ask me how I know...)
    If you decide to keep going with this hobby, save your pennies and get a good gun. There are many manufacture's that produce good guns, DeVilbiss, Iwata, Sagola (sold by Len) Sata all make good guns. The good guns are actually easier to use.
    Use your good gun for BC/CC only
    Clean your gun EVERY time!
    Get a third (cheap) Iwata/Air Gunza gun with a big fat 3.0 tip for spraying the poly fillers (G2 Feather Fill, Slick Sand etc)
    Use guide coat - I use the canned Sem stuff
    Have fun, don't get frustrated and enjoy the process (kind of like life in general)
    Clean your gun EVERY time!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Thank you Len for the informative information, and OldFatBald for the recommendations and hearty welcome.

    I admit that it's all a bit over my head right now. There's so much to learn.
    I want to do it myself rather than take it to a shop because there are a lot of things to restore and I want to take my time with it. I used to live in NZ and the they say DIY, it's in our DNA

    I've never even heard of guide coat or polly filler. It's like putty but a gun does it? For my current wheel well job, there are some scuffs to the bare metal from my Dremel scraping tool. Will they help with the prep before I apply ZR base coat?

    I do have some dents and imperfections in my paint but I don't think I'm ready to tackle that, at least not yet. It's a pearl mica paint so I have no idea how to deal with that.

    For now, I want to handle the rust near the wheel well, by the windshield seal, and some rock chips on the bonnet (thinking of using touch-up paint). And do the body-colour wheel wells which is how I found this forum
    I'm going to restore some of the undercarriage parts too that have seen too many Canadian winters. Hopefully remove some rust and hit it with some black paint. BAM! On my way to a sleeper show car.

    Still not sure about some things:
    What size compressor? Can I get away with a 6 gallon one on Amazon, like the Crafstman CMEC6150K? I won't be painting that much, and if the only difference is I have to wait a bit to recharge, I can live with that.
    I think it comes with hoses. If I got that, would I still need a separate air filter?
    Is mixing or thinning paint hard? How long does the leftover paint last if I seal it properly? I'm completely new to painting

    It does seem like a lot of gear but I'm hoping that I'll make good use of it and especially, that the results will show. After I learn a bit more about what it takes!

    Very grateful for the help.
    It's better than rattling right?
    If I to decide to go down the spray gun route, I'll PRACTICE and remember to clean my gun EVERY time!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerAl View Post
    I admit that it's all a bit over my head right now. There's so much to learn.
    I want to do it myself rather than take it to a shop because there are a lot of things to restore and I want to take my time with it. I used to live in NZ and the they say DIY, it's in our DNA
    Yes, lots of info but just like eating an elephant, take it one bite at a time. Trust me, if I can do it, anyone can. We may never be at some of these guys level that have years and years of work under their belts, but my buddies are impressed by my little projects. Just start and plan on making and learning from your mistakes.


    I've never even heard of guide coat or polly filler. It's like putty but a gun does it? For my current wheel well job, there are some scuffs to the bare metal from my Dremel scraping tool. Will they help with the prep before I apply ZR base coat?
    The poly fillers are awesome if you get your metal work down correctly which you should as the ol "cave n pave" methods are highly frowned on around here. The poly fillers are like sprayable bondo, I also like to use HB primers (High Build) then sand most of it off. The guide coat that I use is black quick drying and shows your high and low spots. I pretty much use it for all my sanding prior to base coat.

    Still not sure about some things:
    What size compressor? Can I get away with a 6 gallon one on Amazon, like the Crafstman CMEC6150K? I won't be painting that much, and if the only difference is I have to wait a bit to recharge, I can live with that.
    I think it comes with hoses. If I got that, would I still need a separate air filter?
    Is mixing or thinning paint hard? How long does the leftover paint last if I seal it properly? I'm completely new to painting
    Plenty of threads on forums about compressor size and no that one is not big enough. It would probably handle an air brush but that is different. 60 gallon/5 hp is pretty much the minimum. I started with my ol Dewalt contractor compressor in the other room (gas powered!!) but I don't suggest that at all.

    Mixing paint is easy, just more gear, mixing cups and wood sticks. The materials last pretty long, just keep them away from extreme cold and heat.

    It does seem like a lot of gear but I'm hoping that I'll make good use of it and especially, that the results will show. After I learn a bit more about what it takes!

    Very grateful for the help.
    It's better than rattling right?
    If I to decide to go down the spray gun route, I'll PRACTICE and remember to clean my gun EVERY time!
    Is it better than rattle cans?? You tell me (answer: Yes)

    (X) Final Clear.jpg
    AC Box (9).jpg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Great work! I saw your job on the speakers too while I was searching just now.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatBald View Post
    The poly fillers are awesome if you get your metal work down correctly which you should as the ol "cave n pave" methods are highly frowned on around here. The poly fillers are like sprayable bondo, I also like to use HB primers (High Build) then sand most of it off. The guide coat that I use is black quick drying and shows your high and low spots. I pretty much use it for all my sanding prior to base coat.
    Yes, that makes sense now. When in doubt, listen to the wise masters.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatBald View Post
    Plenty of threads on forums about compressor size and no that one is not big enough. It would probably handle an air brush but that is different. 60 gallon/5 hp is pretty much the minimum. I started with my ol Dewalt contractor compressor in the other room (gas powered!!) but I don't suggest that at all.
    60 gallons... wow that's big. I've since learned that this size is needed though t meet the CFM requirements of a gun like the Finishline.

    So the Husky 60 gallon (HLA3706056), with 40 13.4 CFM at 40 psi, is 499 USD (~688 CAD) from Home Depot US but 878 CAD at Home Depot Canada . and it's also 230 V... have to check if my garage can do that. A lot to consider.

    By the way, the Devilbliss Finishline 4 FLG-670 (360 CAD + tax) is 13 CFM at 23 PSI. Something like the Neiko 31213A 1.3mm (70 CAD + tax) is 4.5 CFM at <40 psi (it just says <40).
    What's the reason for the difference in CFM and price, and the effect on the paint outcome?

    Is it possible to paint things like wheel wells with a lower CFM gun and compressor, or am I being foolish? Keen to learn more.

    Going with the 60 gallon, I should hope that I get good enough at this to paint the whole car next summer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerAl View Post
    Great work! I saw your job on the speakers too while I was searching just now.
    Al, trust me, if I can do it. Anyone can. It wasn't that long ago that I was in your exact shoes. You WILL make mistakes, take lots of photos and notes (air temp, material, gun psi, time of day, mix ratios) through the process. When you do screw up (and you will) post photos with discrete questions - This site is probably one of the best hobby forums for pros to FREELY give out their years of knowledge without having to listen to some tweaker POS. It is funny to see these guys bitch at each other over non-paint stuff but who cares? These guys back up their words and advice with their projects, knowledge and skill sets.

    Get a three ring binder for your TDS sheets, gun setting notes and conversion tables. Keep it handy. I made a spreadsheet that lists my different guns, tip sizes and start settings. I pretty much check it every time that I use a gun.

    60 gallons... wow that's big. I've since learned that this size is needed though t meet the CFM requirements of a gun like the Finishline.

    So the Husky 60 gallon (HLA3706056), with 40 13.4 CFM at 40 psi, is 499 USD (~688 CAD) from Home Depot US but 878 CAD at Home Depot Canada . and it's also 230 V... have to check if my garage can do that. A lot to consider.

    By the way, the Devilbliss Finishline 4 FLG-670 (360 CAD + tax) is 13 CFM at 23 PSI. Something like the Neiko 31213A 1.3mm (70 CAD + tax) is 4.5 CFM at <40 psi (it just says <40).
    What's the reason for the difference in CFM and price, and the effect on the paint outcome?

    Is it possible to paint things like wheel wells with a lower CFM gun and compressor, or am I being foolish? Keen to learn more.

    Going with the 60 gallon, I should hope that I get good enough at this to paint the whole car next summer.
    DON'T rush out and buy a compressor. Take your time and do the research!! That is a big investment.

    You can paint an elephant with an LPH-80 (small gun, low cfm demand), it just isn't ideal and would take longer. My elephant would need to painted at least twice, because I would have a mind fart and screw something up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    5

    Default Decision made

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatBald View Post
    Al, trust me, if I can do it. Anyone can. It wasn't that long ago that I was in your exact shoes. You WILL make mistakes, take lots of photos and notes (air temp, material, gun psi, time of day, mix ratios) through the process. When you do screw up (and you will) post photos with discrete questions - This site is probably one of the best hobby forums for pros to FREELY give out their years of knowledge without having to listen to some tweaker POS. It is funny to see these guys bitch at each other over non-paint stuff but who cares? These guys back up their words and advice with their projects, knowledge and skill sets.

    Get a three ring binder for your TDS sheets, gun setting notes and conversion tables. Keep it handy. I made a spreadsheet that lists my different guns, tip sizes and start settings. I pretty much check it every time that I use a gun.



    DON'T rush out and buy a compressor. Take your time and do the research!! That is a big investment.

    You can paint an elephant with an LPH-80 (small gun, low cfm demand), it just isn't ideal and would take longer. My elephant would need to painted at least twice, because I would have a mind fart and screw something up.
    I thought about it some more, and I think I'm going to spray bomb my wheel wells .
    I'll use touch-up paint for small rock chips on places like my hood. Try to do some small rust repair. Anything else, I'm taking it to a pro.

    The up-front cost of the full gun setup is too high and I don't see myself using it enough to make it worth it. Plus, not a lot of space in my garage for that giant compressor.

    So thanks for the fair advice on what the pros use. Could I still ask how to do it the spray-bomb way?

    The Zero Rust instructions say to use black or red because it's more corrosive-resistant, so I'm going to go with black like Len does.
    Another instruction says Select two dissimilar colors for each coat"", which is leaving me confused. Is it suggesting something like Option B?

    Option A
    - two coats of Zero Rust black, as primer
    - three coats of Zero Rust green, as topcoat

    Option B (based on the ZR instruction)
    - one coat of Zero Rust black, as primer
    - one coat of another Zero Rust colour, as primer
    - three coats of a green topcoat (I'm checking with ZR to see the shade of green, the ZR and Seal and Protect sites show different thumbnails)

    Or an Option C ?

    Should I use ZR as my topcoat or something else? I can't actually find my paint code in Duplicolor match either, so I'm not sure what to do about that.

    Going to work on my prep more this week. I just bought some auto body filler too.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Al, no problem and that is the better route to go unless you want to do this as a hobby. I do, many dont, and of course we have our site's pros to help us.

    We had just touched on the actual cost of tools and materials. Straight sandpaper, DA sandpaper, sanding blocks, the DA, air filters, mixing cups, filters all add up.

    Too bad you weren't closer or could find some addict like myself. I'm doing layout panels for a guy down in SoCal so I can shoot his steering wheel for him for free!! (he's a Caddy guy!) I'd come over and show you what to prep the shoot it for you.

    Anyway, I don't know anything about the Zero Rust, but you can get spray bombs that have real two part epoxy in them. I have used them, they are not cheap, but they are a good solution and a LOT cheaper than the entry point of this hobby.

    I will now turn over the advise to our local experts on the Zero Rust, good luck with your project.

  12. #12

    Default

    Recently I sort out the trash in my garage and found so many tools, which you could need. Ohh my, but I gave them to my sibling lol
    Anyway, I've found there many interesting things. Maybe some of you need an old coffee machine?
    Last edited by Alemante34; 09-28-2020 at 04:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
    Posts
    141

    Default

    truckeral
    I to am a complete newbie to this bodywork stuff. You have some great advise here. The more you ask the more you learn but nothing beats hands on stuff. Half the challenge is not knowing what questions to even ask. I bought a used 60 gal compressor and made my own dryer system for it. You can see what I am building in the trucks section farther down here. As for the spray gun, just an idea. I will be looking for something down the road say a year or so. If you buy the good gun, you will have better results, perhaps find other projects to do as well. If you find you are done with it instead, I would be willing to buy it off you thereby cutting your costs in half.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  14. #14

    Default

    Speaking of lighting, this is one of the most important components of a good garage. It should be both general and local. It is best to use daylight lamps. As a local lighting, you can recommend a portable device that uses a halogen lamp. In addition, you will need basic tools: jack, compressor, keys. When I first bought the house, I also thought that I would repair the car in the garage. But my father advised me to turn to carportaustralia.com.au and build a carport. It turned out that it was much more convenient to repair the car under a canopy.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •