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Tommy MM
02-18-2013, 10:14 PM
I am confused ive been useing adisposable cartridge filtered 3m mask when i paint in my garage. 3m says its not good for isos. My paint shop dealer store says i can use it. Am i endangering my self?

Len
02-18-2013, 10:38 PM
I am confused ive been useing adisposable cartridge filtered 3m mask when i paint in my garage. 3m says its not good for isos. My paint shop dealer store says i can use it. Am i endangering my self?

Those are ok on a very limited basis but you would be much safer with a supplied air system like the one below.

The "direct feed hood" is comfortable and safe in very heavy overspray.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/HB02H.jpg
Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=HB02&Category_Code=HP)

tommyw-5088
05-24-2013, 01:25 PM
I will use a charcoal mask in a very limited job , VERY limited .

We have a sas full face supplied air if its over a half pint with iso"s i put it on .

Become sensitized and you can never be around ISO"s again .-I cant afford the risk .

Been painting a long time ,always been very careful ,Now at age 46 im still able to workout , box and enjoy life .

Dont risk your lungs .

Chase
05-25-2013, 09:57 AM
I am confused ive been useing adisposable cartridge filtered 3m mask when i paint in my garage. 3m says its not good for isos. My paint shop dealer store says i can use it. Am i endangering my self?

AS mentioned for small jobs with little paint you may be ok. But remember your garage is not like a "paint booth" that exchanges all the air every 30 seconds! This maybe what your paint dealer is referring to where the 3m cartridge mask can be used effectively. Your typical garage with just a wall fan would become overloaded with spray at times which would be too much for the cartridge filters to filter out a 100% effectively. I believe it states right on the filters about this in all the fine print. For what you can buy the hobby air systems for now a days its and much safer route and peace of mind. Plus you don't have to worry about buying those cartridges anymore ...:)

Phil V
06-07-2013, 04:00 AM
I have been spraying paint professionally in paintbooths and in home garages for 40 years and I have always used disposable dual charcoal cannister painters masks. My lungs are fine and I'm more healthy than 90% of the men my age. Dual charcoal cannister painters masks are 100% effective in filtering out ISO's WHEN the mask is used properly. That means NO facial hair (except for mustaches). No beards, no go-tees etc because the facial hair stops the mask from properly sealing against the skin on your face. The mask MUST be adjusted properly to fit your face, not too tight and not too loose. Put the mask on your face and adjust it to what feels right for you, at that point put your hands over the charcoal cannisters blocking the air from entering the mask and try to take a deep breath. If any air leaks around the mask where it contacts your face skin then re-adjust the mask until there is no air leaking around the mask. A universally accepted usable life span of a cartridge type painters mask is about 8 hours (8 hours of actually spraying paint). Seal the mask in an air tight sealable enclosure like the zip lock bag it comes in or you can use large kitchen type zip lock bags to keep the mask in when not on your face. The masks come with pre-filters and those pre-filters have to be kept clean and not plugged up. When I use a previously used mask (my previously used mask) I remove the two pre-filters and carefully blow then out with compressed air to blow out dried overspray from restricting the air flow into the mask. IF you smell ANY chemical smells coming through a dual charcoal painters mask then throw it away and put on a new mask. The chemical N-butyl acetate will come through the cartridge before any iso exposure - so like I said -- if you smell ANY chemical smell coming through the mask then throw it out right away and replace it with a new fresh mask.

The biggest down side to charcoal cannister painters masks is that they are not idiot proof. Which by Murphy's Law any possible way a painters mask can be mis-used some idiot will misuse it either intentionally or through ignorance.

My honest advice is if you spray one or two cars a year then charcoal cannister painters masks are fine when used correctly. If you are really serious about this business and plan on years of restoring cars then a supplied air painters mask/hood is a better choice. No tool is idiot proof, including supplied air painters masks/hoods but the supplied air systems are less prone to mis-use.

I see novices agonizing and obsessing about dangerous chemicals that are part of the materials we use in auto-body and automotive paint work. If you are going to be constantly paranoid and obsessing about the materials used in autobody/paint then perhaps a more benign hobby should be in your future. If you are not enjoying what your'e doing then why do it ? Do your research and decide what level of safety protection reasonably fits your needs on a personal level.

Len
06-07-2013, 06:23 AM
I have been spraying paint professionally in paintbooths and in home garages for 40 years and I have always used disposable dual charcoal cannister painters masks. My lungs are fine and I'm more healthy than 90% of the men my age. Dual charcoal cannister painters masks are 100% effective in filtering out ISO's WHEN the mask is used properly. That means NO facial hair (except for mustaches). No beards, no go-tees etc because the facial hair stops the mask from properly sealing against the skin on your face. The mask MUST be adjusted properly to fit your face, not too tight and not too loose. Put the mask on your face and adjust it to what feels right for you, at that point put your hands over the charcoal cannisters blocking the air from entering the mask and try to take a deep breath. If any air leaks around the mask where it contacts your face skin then re-adjust the mask until there is no air leaking around the mask. A universally accepted usable life span of a cartridge type painters mask is about 8 hours (8 hours of actually spraying paint). Seal the mask in an air tight sealable enclosure like the zip lock bag it comes in or you can use large kitchen type zip lock bags to keep the mask in when not on your face. The masks come with pre-filters and those pre-filters have to be kept clean and not plugged up. When I use a previously used mask (my previously used mask) I remove the two pre-filters and carefully blow then out with compressed air to blow out dried overspray from restricting the air flow into the mask. IF you smell ANY chemical smells coming through a dual charcoal painters mask then throw it away and put on a new mask. The chemical N-butyl acetate will come through the cartridge before any iso exposure - so like I said -- if you smell ANY chemical smell coming through the mask then throw it out right away and replace it with a new fresh mask.

The biggest down side to charcoal cannister painters masks is that they are not idiot proof. Which by Murphy's Law any possible way a painters mask can be mis-used some idiot will misuse it either intentionally or through ignorance.

My honest advice is if you spray one or two cars a year then charcoal cannister painters masks are fine when used correctly. If you are really serious about this business and plan on years of restoring cars then a supplied air painters mask/hood is a better choice. No tool is idiot proof, including supplied air painters masks/hoods but the supplied air systems are less prone to mis-use.

I see novices agonizing and obsessing about dangerous chemicals that are part of the materials we use in auto-body and automotive paint work. If you are going to be constantly paranoid and obsessing about the materials used in autobody/paint then perhaps a more benign hobby should be in your future. If you are not enjoying what your'e doing then why do it ? Do your research and decide what level of safety protection reasonably fits your needs on a personal level.

A good indication of the effectiveness of canister masks is how many are recommended for use with hardened paint products that contain isocyannates..... NONE. Neither paint manufacturers or mask manufacturers recommend using a cartridge mask when spraying hardened paint. Why? Because they are negative pressure and can easily leak around the edges of the mask and even a small amount of exposure can effect your health for the rest of you life. I know people that have health problems from this type of exposure.

Just because you (Phil) haven't experienced health problems doesn't mean it's a safe practice. If you doubt my information you should read the cautions on the information that comes with the paint or the canister masks. Also, don't forget that canister masks have a very short lifespan and most users don't replace the cartridges in a timely manor which can also expose them to the isos.

Recommending this type of mask because it didn't hurt you could be quite dangerous for someone else. When spraying is done outside of a spray booth the buildup of overspray in the air can be quite significant and a cartridge mask can have the prefilters blocked rather quickly which can cause a pressure drop inside the mask that helps generate leaks. If you plan on painting in a garage or in any room that is not designed for spraying you should be wearing a supplied air mask to help insure your safety.


http://autobodystore.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/hobbyair2.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ABS&Category_Code=HP)

Phil V
06-07-2013, 10:32 AM
A good indication of the effectiveness of canister masks is how many are recommended for use with hardened paint products that contain isocyannates..... NONE. Neither paint manufacturers or mask manufacturers recommend using a cartridge mask when spraying hardened paint. Why? Because they are negative pressure and can easily leak around the edges of the mask and even a small amount of exposure can effect your health for the rest of you life. I know people that have health problems from this type of exposure.

Just because you (Phil) haven't experienced health problems doesn't mean it's a safe practice. If you doubt my information you should read the cautions on the information that comes with the paint or the canister masks. Also, don't forget that canister masks have a very short lifespan and most users don't replace the cartridges in a timely manor which can also expose them to the isos.

Len, I understand what your saying I agree with you up to a point. But I really believe that the reason paint manufacturers and mask manufacturers don't/won't recommend dual charcoal painters masks for hardened paint is because those masks are not idiot proof. And because of living in a litigation/law suit happy society those paint and mask manufacturers lawyers are telling them what they should and what they should not publish in their recommendations to cover their asses from lawsuits by people who misuse their products. And like I said - " if you are serious about doing this type of work long term as a hobby or as a profession then supplied air masks/hoods are a better choice, mainly because they are more idiot proof than charcoal masks.

ALL the professional painters I know personally (both older and younger painters) wear the 3M dual charcoal cannister painters masks. Are supplied air systems better ? absolutely. Should the dual cannister painters masks be avoided like the plague ? absolutely not . The do what they were designed to do and they do it well, as long as they are used correctly.

Len
06-07-2013, 11:18 AM
ALL the professional painters I know personally (both older and younger painters) wear the 3M dual charcoal cannister painters masks. Are supplied air systems better ? absolutely. Should the dual cannister painters masks be avoided like the plague ? absolutely not . The do what they were designed to do and they do it well, as long as they are used correctly.

If you're a "professional" painter you tend to be in a well ventilated spray booth without a lot of the fumes/overspray lingering around you. It's this overspray that you don't want to be exposed to and it's the reason that cartridge masks should be avoided when spraying in a garage where you tend to be surrounded by overspray/fumes. Yes, painting small projects will generate less overspray and a cartridge mask may suffice but if a painter spends any amount of time in a room full of overspray he/she should be using a supplied air system.

Outlaw56
04-06-2014, 11:14 AM
Good refesher course. I was going to ask a question about the face masks for small applications of epozy primer. I did a seach first and found this thread. I did not want to put on my paint overalls and fresh air supply face mask for these little jobs, but Im going to. Just to be safe. I also read somewhere that exposure to the skin and eyeballs was a risk. For me, its better to just suit up and not take the risk. Len steered my in a good direction when I got started, no reason to change course now. My paint booth is well ventalated. It circulates the air in 37 seconds with Jenny fans.