Production Team info swap.

[anml726]

The shop I work for recently implemented a new production team, which I am a part of. The team thing was tried in the past and failed every time, but they spent a lot of time and money making sure the team was setup "properly" this time and that it would work. I am looking for other technicians who are working on a production team who may want to share tips on what works and what doesn't to make the most of the team. Our current goal with a 5 man production team, consisting of two A techs (bodyman/painter), one B tech (bodyman), and two C techs (Blueprinting/Paintprep) is 150% efficiency. We currently operate around 130% efficient and are producing close to 130K a month. We are looking for others to share information with in hopes of improving our production as well as maybe helping others to improve as well. Thanks.

[Phil V]

I have never heard of a production team, care to explain in a little more detail exactly what a production team is and how does it gain the bodyman compared to the shop owner to be involved in a 5 man production team effort. Most of the bodymen I've worked with in the last 37 years would have nothing to do with the idea of being part of any kind of team effort in a bodyshop. The whole idea sounds like a con job by a shop owner to get a little more work out of some "less than well experienced bodymen". Oh, and one last question - what is a "blueprinter/prep tech" ? Even the 5 man team composition sounds strange. The only place a "production team" would work at all (if the bodymen were to put up with it, which I doubt they would) would be in a large production shop running two or three shifts. And if that were the case then the bodymen/painters part of the "team" makes no sense, because in most shops today you're either a bodyman OR a painter, rarely both anymore. I am a master autobodyman and a master painter but thats how they did things when I started out in this trade a long time ago. The whole idea of a 5 man team sounds a little fishy to me. Do they break the guys up into 5 man teams in "bodyshop college"/trade school ?

[anml726]

The shop actually spent money hiring a consultant to come in and help set up this whole deal. It really is basically a way for the shop to make more money, but I have to say that everyone on the team, while working a lot harder than we were before, all make more money than we ever have. The basic team comprises two master level techs, one body man, one painter. There is an intermediate level tech who assists in body repair but also in triage/blueprinting and re-assembly. Lastly there are two lower level technicians, one that paint preps and the other mostly doing triage/blueprinting and reassembly. While we all have our own personal spot on the team, the walls between paint and body have metaphorically been taken down, such that anyone on the team may be doing any position. If the painter and prep tech run out of things to do, they will come down and assist in finishing body work or re-assembly to help cars go through. Also, the traige/blueprinting is a term used for a disassembly and supplement. It usually involves one technician that pretty much performs all disassemblies to help make that tech most efficient at that process and spotting all hidden damage and additional operations needed for the repair.

[anml726]

I guess though we do not have multiple shifts our shop would possibly count as a high production shop. We do turn between 200 to 300K a month in production for one shift.

[SHOWCAR FINISH]

We just recently switched over to teams and everybody but preppers and detailers also got switched to flatrate. I work at Golden State Collision, which is the biggest shop in Sac. This is the fastest shop I've ever worked at. PPG caters food to us almost monthly so I know we must be producing well.

Anyhow, not sure of the numbers but can see some things that are working and what can work. We have journeymen as head of the team and two entry to mid level guys as helpers but also learning. It was just implemented so there's some grumpy guys complaining that they have to work harder to get the same amount and it's hard to satisfy everyone. As of now, we have one frame tech and 3 three man teams with blue printers directly on the floor. Our team does not consist of painters or preppers. After teardown we circle the suplimental damage with paint markers and take notes on the estimate so while they're blue printing and taking pics we're already off on the next car. Then, they'll come tell us we can start on the repair. Not sure if it's by design but it seems like we hire younger guys who are hungry and just appreciative of the opportunity to learn. It keeps wages down and attitudes out in the cold. If our 3 man team earns under 120 hours (which equals 40 hrs per man) than we equally divide it but if we go over than it breaks down into percentages but only for the amount over the 120.. The journeyman gets a bigger percentage of course. It works out good cause slow pokes get sifted out and everyone's happy...sort of.

Kind of off topic but the biggest thing that's going on in this shop that makes a ton of difference is parts. We have an amazing parts team and they'll have the parts to you before you've even worked on the car. I worked at few shops and they just didn't seem to get it. That said, I understand some parts are hard to get but get on the ball allready!

[Phil V]

Absolutely no way would I be part of any team like that. What it sounds like to me is the master bodyman is being punished to the tune of being slowed down by people with less experience on his team. The only people that gain is the shop owner (first and foremost) and of course the less experienced techs who are getting on the job training and being brought up to speed ( to the detriment of the well experienced bodyman on the team).

[SHOWCAR FINISH]

Not sure of what you consider "entry level" but the entry level guys in our shop do sections, bodywork, teardowns, skins, and literally everything besides frame work. In my opinion, I am an entry level guy but not some of the other guys being considered entry level. To me, they're mid level or even journeymen that just don't do frame work.

As far as being slowed down, it's not like that at all. They are not faster in my opinion and in FACT I see the hours that each tech puts in and the guy with the most hours is not the journeymen. Even if they did it's not a fair statement since it's everyone else jumping onto their car whenever they request. So no, there's no bitterness cause we're actually doing some of their work, and I don't mind paying for the opportunity.

[Len]

I agree the team concept is used to speed work through the shop. It wouldn't have come about if it slowed down or cost the shops more than individuals doing the entire job.

[Phil V]

Its been my experience in the autobody/paint trade that since the 1940's and 1950's the equity has continually shifted from the autobody man and painter to the shop owners. In the 1950's and early '60s a bodyman was paid a straight 60% commision, 3% on parts, free health insurance, free uniforms and free uniform cleaning service, paid vacations. then in the late '60s it went to straight 50/50 comission, nothing on parts. In the 1970's it went to the bodyman paying half the cost of health insurance, many shops were cutting out paid vacations and paid holidays. In the early 1980's there was the starting of a shift from straight 50/50 comission to 40/60 (40% for the bodyman/60% for the shop) also a shift to flat rate which worked out to less than 50% and a little more than 40% in this area. Now most places have gone to straight hourly wages in the smaller towns and rural areas. So you can see where there has been a gradual decrease in pay for the bodyman and an increase in pay for the shop owner. I haven't worked for someone else since the mid 1980's.

[68-chevydoula]

Part of the problem is inexperianced techs. There are few & far between techs that can do a repair from start to finnish with no assistance. They have all been reduced to asymbly line techs that can only do one part realy well. Like a factory. Is that worth more than wages? If tghe techs would make themselves irreplaceable, they would get paid more. The shop owner could not afford to lose them. They need to know more than just a tech. They need to be fully trained in all aspects of the repair. Thus a more skillful employee is worth more. I would pay a tech like that 50% comm. on labor and paid vacation. The problem is that there aren't any that don't just start there own shop.

[SHOWCAR FINISH]

Thanks for sharing that with us Phil, it explains a lot and I found it very interesting.

68 Chevydoula, I totally agree with that statement. Mostly everyone in our shop only knows what they are doing. We have 4 painters but only one tints. Dang, I'm certified and can tint. Even though I'm a rook I strive to learn it all and am even in my second estimating class. I can take a car from start to finish with no help... well, most of the time . At first I needed help in R&I but the other stuff came easy. Not enough experience for the big frame hits but can section, use a tram, frame system, paint, prep, cutt & buff, bodywork, R&I, and even write a good estimate. That said, I had to take it upon myself to know all this cause I wanted to be like the old schoolers and be a true master. Not a lot experience but the schooling has made the transition a breeze. So yeah, mostly all the guys brought up in this current era of auto body are mere assembly workers. Heck, I'm forced to be too. In my opinion, I think it's crucial for a bodyguy to know what the next guy wants in your work. Thanks to prepping experience and painting the painter tells me he likes my work. Still sooooo much for me to learn and in each area. I wish I had the opportunities you guys had. You guys are the true masters of the trade and a dying breed. Well, the guys that can accept the new technologies are, and all you guys are open to that otherwise you wouldn't be on here.

[anml726]

Parts is a major issue in our shop. They do almost no pre-ordering at all, so we are constantly waiting for parrts, then set back even longer when parts are wrong or damaged. We have no parts team either, just one guy. He works really hard, and is really good at his job, but this whole issue still holds us back. Our pay is basically based on percentage. We get a small hourly rate, plus an "incentive" which is a percentage of the gross sales on each job produced. This percentage is devided between the team members according to hours worked and experience level. The whole setup is mind boggling, and confused everyone when they tried to explain the pay system. Our process seems similar to the other one described described. Cars are listed on a dry erase board for the team, we bring them in as we are ready for them, tear down, circle damage with paint markers and write our list of supplement stuff. The whole process seems really slow and parts and damage are still missed. We triage a car, the production manager goes over the car and finished the estimate, then the G.M. is supposed to scrub the estimate and make sure nothing was missed, but stuff still gets missed.
Anyone have any input on ways to help this matter, other than to just be more diligent with teardowns?

[anml726]

That is a really interesting bit of information concerning the history of this field. Most of the older tech.s I talk to say that this whole industry has gone to crap and taken the money from the bodyment and given it to the owners/insurance companies. Management is constantly telling us jobs must be repaired faster, cheaper (reducing severity), and to a higher quallity. I haven't been in this field long, but I can already see things changing and taking more and more away from the bodymen. Actually, what was funny was a few days ago the G.M. was telling me how upset he was that a couple of the bodymen actually made more money than him and that totally wasn't right.

[Len]

Part of the problem is inexperianced techs. There are few & far between techs that can do a repair from start to finnish with no assistance. They have all been reduced to asymbly line techs that can only do one part realy well. Like a factory. Is that worth more than wages? If tghe techs would make themselves irreplaceable, they would get paid more. The shop owner could not afford to lose them. They need to know more than just a tech. They need to be fully trained in all aspects of the repair. Thus a more skillful employee is worth more. I would pay a tech like that 50% comm. on labor and paid vacation. The problem is that there aren't any that don't just start there own shop.

Good help has always been and will alway be difficult to find and keep. Shops that are managed well will be able to afford to pay their techs well. There are painters, body repairers and mechanics that are well into 6 figures in my area and they wouldn't think of opening their own shop because by the time they get this amount of money they know how lucky they are.

[68-chevydoula]

you are probubly right in your part of the world, but where I am from this is not the case. There is not enough production in our small town to support the asymbly line shop, And in most cases in rural areas in Southern MO. Most rural areas run a 2 to 3 man shop. They have one guy that does most of the painting, but the other guy needs to know how too. they can all work on a car from start to finnish, and make around $30-40K per year.