Master Zen bodywork, metal finishing only

[Phil V]

Many years ago I was taught by a Tibetan Buddhist Master Zen autobodyman the lost art of repairing damaged sheet metal using only the powers of my mind. The secret lies in willing the damage out of the sheet metal which brings the metal back to its proper contour using no filler and no new paint work. Over the years I have had many apprentice bodymen ask me to teach them how I will the damage out of sheet metal. But when I do this type of work I demand that everyone leave the room and remind them that if they hear any hammering, banging, grinding or see a little bondo dust come through under the door that its only for effect while the real work is done by using Zen Buddhism to will the damage out of the sheet metal. Enclosed is a picture of my truck after getting hit by a Mercedes who ran a red light. That is the "before" picture, you can use your imagination to what the truck looks like "after" or I'll post a picture later of the "after" photo where the damage was willed out of the sheetmetal, including the Chrome front bumper. Keep in mind that NO filler was used and no paint work was done to get the truck back into pristine condition. I had to promise the Tibetan Buddhist Master Zen autobody teacher that I wouldn't teach others the amazing art of using Zen Buddhism and just my will to repair damaged metal. If you believe this story then I also have some swamp land in Florida for sale and possibly a large bridge for sale in Brooklyn, NY.

[68-chevyman]

Funny you should make this post Phill. I was just siting around one day thinking about fixing this car and things started floting around.

SOON IT WAS FIXED AND IT WAS ((((FIXED WITHOUT FILLER)))!!!!!!


P.S. I can only wish to be as entertaining as you! I'll be laughing all day long!

[Jayson M]

Most of your pics are pretty vague,I can hardly make out what you did to that buick,change the quarter and put on a new door??If so how did you finish your spotwelds and your splice on the sail panel,lead?Then you show us the front of the car and we can't see how everything lines up.On the dodge pickup you don't show a side view of the bare metal area with a straight edge to show us how "AWESOME" you are.Don't get me wrong I can metal finish too so I'm not jealous of your work.I don't think it is cost effective if it takes you 8 hours to do a sheet metal repair without filler when you could use an 1/8 inch of filler and be done in 3-4hours.You can save time by using a shrinking disk on a grinder instead of using a torch.I'm still not convinced,I have been doing paint and bodywork for 20 years and was taught by an old Austrian craftsman so Im no hack if thats what you are thinking.

[ZRX61]

Is this a branch of the ancient eastern philisophy of Tai Spi?

[68-chevyman]

Most of your pics are pretty vague,I can hardly make out what you did to that buick,change the quarter and put on a new door??If so how did you finish your spotwelds and your splice on the sail panel,lead?Then you show us the front of the car and we can't see how everything lines up.On the dodge pickup you don't show a side view of the bare metal area with a straight edge to show us how "AWESOME" you are.Don't get me wrong I can metal finish too so I'm not jealous of your work.I don't think it is cost effective if it takes you 8 hours to do a sheet metal repair without filler when you could use an 1/8 inch of filler and be done in 3-4hours.You can save time by using a shrinking disk on a grinder instead of using a torch.I'm still not convinced,I have been doing paint and bodywork for 20 years and was taught by an old Austrian craftsman so Im no hack if thats what you are thinking.

Sory that the pictures aren't that good. I have trouble stopping what I am doing to take pictures. Besides any amount of pictures will not convince those who can't conceive the possibilities of these types of repairs.

I am only here because I consider myself to be a friend of the autobodysore fourm and hope that I can be helpful from time to time. With as many young and up comming auto body techs that start out in this trade, on this fourm, I would like to think that the minnimum use of fillers would be promoted. I don't have any problem with the use of a little filler, it is just that after working dents out for filler so long, I learned how to avoid it for the most part. Comming from a background of 3 generations of metalworking tradesman on both sides of the family, I take pride in the quality of my work. The only reason that I have posted pictures here is because I am proud of my work, and I want to share it. There isn't many places on the web that one can do this. I am not about to get into a pissing match with "someone" who only wants to destroy my credibility, because I feel I need my credibility to be trusted as someone who is able to give and receive a little advice from time to time??? Am I wrong to have a desire to share what I prize most as a tradesman with my peers???

As to the Buick, the whole side of the car was replaced new. There is no sale panell seam, just one whole side peice. The spot welds can be ground smooth without any trouble for primer. There was no magic in fixing this car with out filler. Just new parts, and elbow grease.

As to the profitability of metalfinnishing- the body shop has never had better advertizing leverage, or less trouble competing in the marketplace.

SEEMS METALFINNISHING IS NOW IN HIGH DEMAND AROUND HERE, AND WE ALL KNOW THE LAWS THAT GOVERN SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

[oldbodyman]

The pics. dont really show the details of repairs on this 2003 buick Lesabre limited edition with only 1100 miles that 68 chev rebuilt for my sister. WE BUILT THIS CAR IN 2003.
If you look close at the pic. of the car toredown you can determine that the only panels that have not been removed, is the left side panels.
THE ROOF IS GONE ALSO. THE CAR WAS A TOTAL LOSS. It was T boned hard in the side. So hard infact that the roof was beyond repair. The floor ,and unibody damage carried over half way through the car. The car was repaired as good as human possibilities allow. We have rebuilt and sold somewhere between 200-300 rebuilders in the last 9 years. With little or no problems,or complaints, with our costomers. As well as maintaining our retail body shop business. A good number of them were order bought for induviduals. (Repeat buyers). We beleive in giving good measure pressed down ,shaken, and running over. Its our responsibility to care about the human beings that own these cars. We have to treat others as we want to be treated. Seek first the kingdom, and all these things will be added. Income and...etc. 68 chev works 40 hrs a week, and earns a very respectable living.
(HE IS A REAL PROFESSIONAL) The best that I have worked with in 48 years. God Bless
Old Bodyman

[Jayson M]

68chevyman don't get me wrong I am not out to insult you or your work,from what I can see looks very good.All I meant was that the pics are so dark on the buick I can barely see anything cause it is dark.Maybe next time explain what you did.I can now understand using no filler in that kind of repair cause I have done it myself many times.I have an openmind and have always been a believer if someone has a better way of doing something show me how.If possible show us how you metal finish without a body file ,I'm open to everyones way of doing things I just have to see to believe.

[SamG]

I've installed those Lesabre side panels before too. The box those things come in is HUUUGGGEEEE. In fact I figured they spent as much on the packaging as they did on stamping the panel itself. We rebuilt probably 50 of those Lesabres from total loss wrecks...kinda hated to see them replace that platform. But then I hated when they moved away from the previous version as well. I couldn't fathom how many previous generation Lesabres, olds 88s and 98, Ponitac Bonnevilles, we built.

My wife is driving one now that I rebuilt in a 3-day weekend with a combination of used and new parts:

Front frame rail section
Radiator support (2 sides, lower and upper tie bar)
Cooling
left fender apron (inner structure in front of strut tower)
Fenders
Hood
inner and outer upper rails on left side
oil pan
Front bumper cover
Grille
headlights
headlight mounting panel
front bumper reinforcement

I've got to find time to work on the car again (after 40k miles). they have a terrible design on the subframe rubber bushings that allow them to move in their mounting point once they've aged a little (or after a front end wreck). I usually put 3-4 small tack welds on each mount then paint them and that fixes the problem.

Looks like a nice job on your buick...How did you like that 'bonded' roof skin?

SamG

[Derry]

Phil-
When I was learning sheetmetal repair from MY Zen Buddhest Master he taught me that:
"If you understand, things are the way they are. If you don't understand, things are the way they are".
I'm in your camp of being more than a little sceptical ...maybe we had the same Master but mine taught me to try to understand what isn't always obviously understandable.
Does the Zen notion that "less is more" apply here?
Derry

[68-chevyman]

68chevyman don't get me wrong I am not out to insult you or your work,from what I can see looks very good.All I meant was that the pics are so dark on the buick I can barely see anything cause it is dark.Maybe next time explain what you did.I can now understand using no filler in that kind of repair cause I have done it myself many times.I have an openmind and have always been a believer if someone has a better way of doing something show me how.If possible show us how you metal finish without a body file ,I'm open to everyones way of doing things I just have to see to believe.

When straightining a large area their is three stages to go through.

1. (Shape) edges, body lines, general flow of the shape. This should be done with soft tools as much as posable to prevent streching.

2. (Large highs and lows) These can be removed using the off dolly method. Body hammer and a dolly. Once this step in done a little filler would be easy to finish with but I enjoy finishing the job without filler.

3.(small highs and lows) This is where pratice is everything, you need to be able to hit a spot the size of a pea on the back side with a pick hammer or a pry rod while watching the outside, to not over do it. I have many tricks, and I learn new ones every day for this. The most importent trick is good lighting.

[68-chevyman]

Many years ago I was taught by a Tibetan Buddhist Master Zen autobodyman the lost art of repairing damaged sheet metal using only the powers of my mind. The secret lies in willing the damage out of the sheet metal which brings the metal back to its proper contour using no filler and no new paint work. Over the years I have had many apprentice bodymen ask me to teach them how I will the damage out of sheet metal. But when I do this type of work I demand that everyone leave the room and remind them that if they hear any hammering, banging, grinding or see a little bondo dust come through under the door that its only for effect while the real work is done by using Zen Buddhism to will the damage out of the sheet metal. Enclosed is a picture of my truck after getting hit by a Mercedes who ran a red light. That is the "before" picture, you can use your imagination to what the truck looks like "after" or I'll post a picture later of the "after" photo where the damage was willed out of the sheetmetal, including the Chrome front bumper. Keep in mind that NO filler was used and no paint work was done to get the truck back into pristine condition. I had to promise the Tibetan Buddhist Master Zen autobody teacher that I wouldn't teach others the amazing art of using Zen Buddhism and just my will to repair damaged metal. If you believe this story then I also have some swamp land in Florida for sale and possibly a large bridge for sale in Brooklyn, NY.

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will be telling my grandchildren the story of the ancient Tibetan Buddhist Zen Master autobody technique. By the way the school of Autobody Zin will be starting in the fall- would you like to sign up? hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe heheheheLOLOLOLOLMBO!

[dave_demented]

hey i would love to sign up for that training course, i think that's be awesome know

[68-chevyman]

I've installed those Lesabre side panels before too. The box those things come in is HUUUGGGEEEE. In fact I figured they spent as much on the packaging as they did on stamping the panel itself. We rebuilt probably 50 of those Lesabres from total loss wrecks...kinda hated to see them replace that platform. But then I hated when they moved away from the previous version as well. I couldn't fathom how many previous generation Lesabres, olds 88s and 98, Ponitac Bonnevilles, we built.

My wife is driving one now that I rebuilt in a 3-day weekend with a combination of used and new parts:

Front frame rail section
Radiator support (2 sides, lower and upper tie bar)
Cooling
left fender apron (inner structure in front of strut tower)
Fenders
Hood
inner and outer upper rails on left side
oil pan
Front bumper cover
Grille
headlights
headlight mounting panel
front bumper reinforcement

I've got to find time to work on the car again (after 40k miles). they have a terrible design on the subframe rubber bushings that allow them to move in their mounting point once they've aged a little (or after a front end wreck). I usually put 3-4 small tack welds on each mount then paint them and that fixes the problem.

Looks like a nice job on your buick...How did you like that 'bonded' roof skin?

SamG

Thanks Sam, I liked the bonded roof skin. The first one of these I put on had a water leek because I replaced the bonder in the factory areas only. The rest (2 or 3) that I have replaced sence, I replaced the bonder right up to and through the front and rear spot welds. This stops any chance of leekes.

[36fordguy]

Here in Nevada anything that requires roof repair ends up with a salvage title. This is a "kiss-of-death" to resale values.

[68-chevyman]

Here in Nevada anything that requires roof repair ends up with a salvage title. This is a "kiss-of-death" to resale values.

Well, I did not know that, but let me ask you this. If a throw away roof could be metalfinnished in 15 hours+ R&I headliner and misc. moldings.....would they still try to total it out? In other words, is this a law or do the roof panel replacements just push the repair costs over the 75% total loss threshhold. I know here in MO if water can be proven to have risen above the rocker pannel no est is written, and it is an automatic total loss.