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Thread: Thoughts on painting/prepping?

  1. #1

    Default Thoughts on painting/prepping?

    Hi guys. I took off some of the paint to reveal what's underneath. Lots of layers of old paint and primers! I should probably remove it all down to metal but honestly, I barely have enough time to do the repairs. At the rate I'm going, I will never drive the truck lol. So, I was thinking of 2 coats of Epoxy once the metal work is done. After that, not so sure. Could I shoot a few layers of high build primer to even out the layers of paint or? It's not going to be a show truck. Would like to complete it so I can drive the thing.
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  2. #2
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    A couple layers of Optex filler primer would probably be a good choice since it can be sprayed directly on the metal as well as over other coatings. The Optex dries harder than most over filler primers and you don't need to spray epoxy primer first.



    The Hardener for Optex is sold separately.


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmystoys View Post
    Hi guys. I took off some of the paint to reveal what's underneath. Lots of layers of old paint and primers! I should probably remove it all down to metal but honestly, I barely have enough time to do the repairs. At the rate I'm going, I will never drive the truck lol. So, I was thinking of 2 coats of Epoxy once the metal work is done. After that, not so sure. Could I shoot a few layers of high build primer to even out the layers of paint or? It's not going to be a show truck. Would like to complete it so I can drive the thing.
    Like we used to say in the body shops - "you can have it fast or you can have it done right, but you can't have both".

    The most important part of any paintjob is the foundation. The foundation on your truck (if you leave that old paint and primer) is prone to failure which makes your foundation weak. Compare it to a house, if you buld a new house on an old bad foundation then that bad foundation is going to cause the new house on top of it to fail.

    If you want to do the truck right then strip off the old paint down to bare metal (at least on the outside surfaces). If the previous filler work was done right and shows no signs of failure then no reason to remove it and redo those repairs. If the filler was applied over paint or primer then it has to be rmeoved too.

    Sounds like you're getting antsy to get the truck painted and that is understandable .................. but not advisable. Doing it right takes time, effort and money. Or you can roll the dice and paint over what you have and hope it comes out OK.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    A couple layers of Optex filler primer would probably be a good choice since it can be sprayed directly on the metal as well as over other coatings. The Optex dries harder than most over filler primers and you don't need to spray epoxy primer first.



    The Hardener for Optex is sold separately.

    So there will be some metal work that I still have to do throughout the truck. Is not considered better to have epoxy over metal work? I read so much about epoxy it seems to be the go to when panel repairs are done.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    Like we used to say in the body shops - "you can have it fast or you can have it done right, but you can't have both".

    The most important part of any paintjob is the foundation. The foundation on your truck (if you leave that old paint and primer) is prone to failure which makes your foundation weak. Compare it to a house, if you buld a new house on an old bad foundation then that bad foundation is going to cause the new house on top of it to fail.

    If you want to do the truck right then strip off the old paint down to bare metal (at least on the outside surfaces). If the previous filler work was done right and shows no signs of failure then no reason to remove it and redo those repairs. If the filler was applied over paint or primer then it has to be rmeoved too.

    Sounds like you're getting antsy to get the truck painted and that is understandable .................. but not advisable. Doing it right takes time, effort and money. Or you can roll the dice and paint over what you have and hope it comes out OK.
    Yes, I know I'm sounding antsy lol. Don't get me wrong, I do want to do as good a job as I can do but realizing it won't be a show truck. The problem is I'm always busy with work and life and it just gets in the way of me working on my one day cool truck. I've been doing this for ten years now and don't see any change in the next few years. I'm not getting any younger lol. Anyways, I do understand the basic foundation theory. Was just hoping for less steps to save me (some) time. Still appreciate the feedback.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmystoys View Post
    So there will be some metal work that I still have to do throughout the truck. Is not considered better to have epoxy over metal work? I read so much about epoxy it seems to be the go to when panel repairs are done.
    Epoxy primer then filler primer works well but you can eliminate the epoxy step if you use a direct-to-metal filler primer.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Epoxy primer then filler primer works well but you can eliminate the epoxy step if you use a direct-to-metal filler primer.
    This is the way to go. Cuts costs and is a great product. Have too say I agree with phil V about taking it to sheet metal, no dice to roll.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Epoxy primer then filler primer works well but you can eliminate the epoxy step if you use a direct-to-metal filler primer.
    The problem I see with priming over the existing paint on that truck is -------------- it's an old truck which has been painted several times. Being an older truck means the paint on that truck could very well be acrylic enamel or lacquer. Even epoxy primer will lift unhardened acrylic enamel and putting epoxy or any other modern primer over that paint is playing Russian roulette with paint failure both sooner and later.

    Or he can just roll the dice and hope for the best.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    The problem I see with priming over the existing paint on that truck is -------------- it's an old truck which has been painted several times. Being an older truck means the paint on that truck could very well be acrylic enamel or lacquer. Even epoxy primer will lift unhardened acrylic enamel and putting epoxy or any other modern primer over that paint is playing Russian roulette with paint failure both sooner and later.

    Or he can just roll the dice and hope for the best.
    Yes, I agree, the foundation needs to be decent before you build on it.

  10. #10

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    Ok guys so lets see if I got this right. If I grind everything off to metal, which apparently I should do, I can use epoxy. Or, keep some or all of the existing paint and use direct to metal filler primer instead it should be okay. I'm constantly concerned about the panel welding that I will eventually do. My fears are that if I have a pin hole that gets missed, moisture could travel thru from behind and start rust whereas the epoxy acts as a good barrier against this?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmystoys View Post
    Ok guys so lets see if I got this right. If I grind everything off to metal, which apparently I should do, I can use epoxy. Or, keep some or all of the existing paint and use direct to metal filler primer instead it should be okay. I'm constantly concerned about the panel welding that I will eventually do. My fears are that if I have a pin hole that gets missed, moisture could travel thru from behind and start rust whereas the epoxy acts as a good barrier against this?
    NO! The epoxy won't stop problems created by pin holes in the metal, epoxy helps the top coats to bond with the surface. If you think you'll leave pin holes from welding you should either seal the back of the metal or use something like fiberglass filler over the weld to help the repair to last longer. However using a fiberglass filler may make the repair last longer but it's not as good as sealing from behind.

  12. #12

    Cool

    Take it down to bare metal. I just did that to my '54 and it took me 4 hours, start to finish. The whole car. I used these on a 4" grinder.
    BlackHawk clean and strip discs

    If you're going to be welding panels on, you'll probably have a bit of warpage so you'll need to spread a thin coat of filler over the area anyway which should take care of any pinholes in your welds. What I did was, strip to bare metal, apply filler (directly over bare metal), 2 coats of epoxy primer, followed by 3 coats of Slicksand, blocked the Slicksand then sprayed 3 coats of filler primer. Came out perfect!

    baremetal7.jpg

    blockedprimer1 (3).jpg

    final prime4.jpg

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmystoys View Post
    Ok guys so lets see if I got this right. If I grind everything off to metal, which apparently I should do, I can use epoxy. Or, keep some or all of the existing paint and use direct to metal filler primer instead it should be okay. I'm constantly concerned about the panel welding that I will eventually do. My fears are that if I have a pin hole that gets missed, moisture could travel thru from behind and start rust whereas the epoxy acts as a good barrier against this?
    You almost have it correct but not quite. For YOUR project on an older truck;
    It is best to take it down to bare metal, regardless of what goes on next so there are zero issues down the road with lifting or compatibility issues of products (you just do not want this problem). This allows you to start with a good and solid foundation (remember Phil V's comment about foundation, right on the money).

    As Len stated, epoxy primer is a medium to protect bare metal and help carry your top coats of filler, sealer, bc and cc (or single stage) but NOT for pin hole displacement.

    If my project dictates a lot of welding and/or panel replacement, H&D work, etc., I go straight to epoxy primer after striping everything back to bare metal followed by appropriate fillers.

    If my projects sheet metal needs minimal work, i.e., no welding (or at most just a few small areas), body panels are "pretty" straight" (within a tolerance where H&D work can bring everything with .062"), I go straight to Optex 4:1 DTM spray filler, no need to epoxy primer prior. Optex 4:1 allows for a build of 24 mil (.240") I just would not personally be comfortable with almost a 1/4" build. The maximum filler I allow is .062" on any build or repair. I am thinking you best progression from here would be to get project to bare sheet metal, take notes and pics of concerned areas and then check back here. You just don't want to duplicate your efforts or shoot more material than you need. In other words do the minimal needed without taking shortcuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmystoys View Post
    Yes, I know I'm sounding antsy lol. Don't get me wrong, I do want to do as good a job as I can do but realizing it won't be a show truck. The problem is I'm always busy with work and life and it just gets in the way of me working on my one day cool truck. I've been doing this for ten years now and don't see any change in the next few years. I'm not getting any younger lol. Anyways, I do understand the basic foundation theory. Was just hoping for less steps to save me (some) time. Still appreciate the feedback.
    These guys have given you great advise. You sound like me. I'm a self employed carpenter that lives in the sticks. So always working or driving and then admin at night. My wife was always looking at "projects" that "I" could do to make her life out here better. this is her dream to live in the middle of nowhere. Finally got sick of it and had a discussion with her. Said I wanted one night each week to work on my hot rod. So right after supper I get out of dishes and go right into the shop, no questions, nothing. Work admin, well a quick look at emails and only respond to urgent stuff, the rest will wait till tomorrow night. That has made a huge difference in progress. She has now started do stuff for herself around the house. Grabs my tools and off she goes. If she fails I will help but only after she does it for herself first. Now I even get some weekend time. Made a huge difference in my life and attitude as well.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marten View Post
    These guys have given you great advise. You sound like me. I'm a self employed carpenter that lives in the sticks. So always working or driving and then admin at night. My wife was always looking at "projects" that "I" could do to make her life out here better. this is her dream to live in the middle of nowhere. Finally got sick of it and had a discussion with her. Said I wanted one night each week to work on my hot rod. So right after supper I get out of dishes and go right into the shop, no questions, nothing. Work admin, well a quick look at emails and only respond to urgent stuff, the rest will wait till tomorrow night. That has made a huge difference in progress. She has now started do stuff for herself around the house. Grabs my tools and off she goes. If she fails I will help but only after she does it for herself first. Now I even get some weekend time. Made a huge difference in my life and attitude as well.
    the best relationships are true partnerships. each partner carries their own weight. i have this with my wife as well, and it's been amazing. i just needed to relax my expectations of perfection when she took on a task. it was tough for me at first because i'm incredibly picky, but i got the hang of it, adding some assistance if i want things at a different level. she doesn't get offended when i help her, and i don't help unless i need to. things are getting done, and i'm happy with the quality of the work.
    b marler

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