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Thread: Clear pealing off black color only?

  1. #1
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    Default Clear pealing off black color only?

    I painted a 65 Plymouth 8 years ago with a base clear. I used the exact same type of paint and clear and did the same prep work on the roof and the rest of the body. I painted the main part of the car red and the top black. Now the clear is pealing off in several places on the black top only. The rest of the car looks as good as the day I painted it. I cant help but believe the black color is what caused this. Is it normal for clear to peal off a black color in 8 years? The car is stored out in the weather. I tried to post a photo but could not get it to upload.

  2. #2
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    No it is not normal. There are several variables that can cause this. The first that comes to mind is time allowed between bc and start of application for cc and subsequent layers of cc. Is it peeling all the way to bc or is it separating in the layers of clear? To get a complete understanding of why this failed you will have to take us back to all the applications applied to the top, i.e. did you take it back to sheet metal, primers applied, fillers, seal coat, etc.. Was the products TDS followed specifically? Lastly, you will need to include a pic, it typically tells all.

  3. #3
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    Could have been just a bad batch of black base. It happens, not very often but it does happen.

  4. #4
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    All I can add is that peeling paint normally is caused by UV exposure and the top surfaces usually go first and also the black will tend to get hotter from sun exposure which can hasten the peeling.

    What kind of clear was used and where are you located? Low cost clear in a warmer location can cause the clear to peel faster than other variables.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    All I can add is that peeling paint normally is caused by UV exposure and the top surfaces usually go first and also the black will tend to get hotter from sun exposure which can hasten the peeling.

    What kind of clear was used and where are you located? Low cost clear in a warmer location can cause the clear to peel faster than other variables.
    Just the clear is peeling. The black undercoat is just fine. When I sprayed the base coat, I sprayed 2 coats with 30 minutes flash time between each coat. After spraying the final coat i waited one hour before spraying the clear. Sprayed 3 coats of clear with 20 minutes flash time between coats. I have done it this way for years on numerous cars with no problems at all. I used The Coating Store glamour clear. It looked great for 8 years then started peeling off all at once. It was not a gradual thing. This is in Alabama and it does get hot in the summer but the red base and clear gave me no problem at all and i used the same brand paint, clear, and techniques.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodMan View Post
    Just the clear is peeling. The black undercoat is just fine. When I sprayed the base coat, I sprayed 2 coats with 30 minutes flash time between each coat. After spraying the final coat i waited one hour before spraying the clear. Sprayed 3 coats of clear with 20 minutes flash time between coats. I have done it this way for years on numerous cars with no problems at all. I used The Coating Store glamour clear. It looked great for 8 years then started peeling off all at once. It was not a gradual thing. This is in Alabama and it does get hot in the summer but the red base and clear gave me no problem at all and i used the same brand paint, clear, and techniques.
    I've used that clear in the past and never had a problem. Was the black a Coating Store product?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodMan View Post
    Just the clear is peeling. The black undercoat is just fine. When I sprayed the base coat, I sprayed 2 coats with 30 minutes flash time between each coat. After spraying the final coat i waited one hour before spraying the clear. Sprayed 3 coats of clear with 20 minutes flash time between coats. I have done it this way for years on numerous cars with no problems at all. I used The Coating Store glamour clear. It looked great for 8 years then started peeling off all at once. It was not a gradual thing. This is in Alabama and it does get hot in the summer but the red base and clear gave me no problem at all and i used the same brand paint, clear, and techniques.
    To be honest I am stumped. The only other possibility that comes to mind is if you did a final wipe between base and clear which "may" have contaminated the surface? Not saying you did such, just trying to understand how this could have occured. Once my final coat of base is applied nothing touches the surface from that point on except CC. Is there a possibility you did a final G&W wipe, or some other product, prior to CC?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I've used that clear in the past and never had a problem. Was the black a Coating Store product?
    Yes, this was a coating store product. Len your experience is the same as mine, i have used this for years and never had a problem. To answer Ronf s question, no i did not wipe the base coat down before applying the clear. Since i did the red and the black exactly the same in every way and only the clear over the black has pealed, i think the theory that Len had earlier about the black obsorbing more heat than the red must have had something to do with it, but i have never seen this happen before. Thanks for all the responses.

  9. #9
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    Default Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodMan View Post
    Yes, this was a coating store product. Len your experience is the same as mine, i have used this for years and never had a problem. To answer Ronf s question, no i did not wipe the base coat down before applying the clear. Since i did the red and the black exactly the same in every way and only the clear over the black has pealed, i think the theory that Len had earlier about the black obsorbing more heat than the red must have had something to do with it, but i have never seen this happen before. Thanks for all the responses.
    DELAMINATION in a dark color repaint (black yet), after "8" years is not unusual or unheard of being out in the elements 24/7.

    While that would be my conclusion, part of me still thinks perhaps something else might well be involved. Since we don't have pics, let me ask you what was the 'pattern' of the peeling clear?
    The edges of the top surface above the drip rails, center of the roof, more on one side than the other - something!

    Hey, you got 8 years out of it and the red still looks good. So, if after you redo it, you might consider a water resistant (breathable) car cover or elsewhere to park it in the hot summer sun.

    Good thing is, no one can find anything you may have done wrong and if you did, it certainly would have shown up within the first year or less. Feel good about that anyway. Keep us posted.

    Henry

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotRodMan View Post
    Yes, this was a coating store product. Len your experience is the same as mine, i have used this for years and never had a problem. To answer Ronf s question, no i did not wipe the base coat down before applying the clear. Since i did the red and the black exactly the same in every way and only the clear over the black has pealed, i think the theory that Len had earlier about the black obsorbing more heat than the red must have had something to do with it, but i have never seen this happen before. Thanks for all the responses.
    My only problem with concluding that the black absorbed the heat and caused delamination is you stated the car was stored out of the weather. Over the years I have painted countless black cars and some were never garage kept and to this day I have not seen one of my single or two stage projects delaminated. While I have not kept up with all of the cars I have painted over the years I would be stunned to learn one of them peeled after only 8 years. As I have no experience with your product I can only guess that it may be an inferior product from what I use. I would be interested to hear the experience of other painters who have used The Coating Store products for bc/cc vs a product like high end PPG or Glasurit for long term appearance and durability, as well as TCS vs the lower end products of either of the above mentioned companies. Does TCS sell various grades of bc/cc products in terms of auto paint?

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