single stage high metallic enamel

[jimmy3fan]

Great Website! Anyone Have Any Advice On Shooting Single Stage High Metallic Enamel.

[dave_demented]

my dear friend, in all do respect, you have inyour hands one of the hardest things imho to spray. the first actual color i ever sprayed was a bright silver centari enamel. enamel will come out like glass when it is done right, but can go to hell very easily. theres a fine line with enamel if its too dry and if its too wet. too dry and itll look alright, but very orange peely, etc. but too wet and it'll run like hell, and becasue its a metallic itll mottle(metallic clumps together) very easily. the trick is to spray each coat medium thickness and wait till the paint tacks up before you do another. the gloss comes as it hardens, try spraying a couple test panels before you go and actually paint what you want to paint

[Len]

Great Website! Anyone Have Any Advice On Shooting Single Stage High Metallic Enamel.

Is there a reason you don't want to use a base/clear finish? It's a lot easier to get an even looking job using two stage paint than it is to use a single stage when spraying metallic color.

[isprayum]

ill agree. my advise is dont. you will be unhappy

[AlexeiVT]

I'd say, w/ the ever increasing cost of materials, a "bargain" name brand enamel costing a fraction of what you'd pay for a decent urethane bc/cc system, coupled w/ diving in not knowing exactly what to do, I understand wanting to play it a bit more cost effectively and going w/ a lesser yet still acceptable technology.

But, w/ a decent gun and sound technique (something that somes from a bit of trial and error, and if your lucky, something innate), and adequate air supply, there's no reason to suspect results you wouldn't be happy w/.

Be it a hardened enamel, or a hardened single stage urethane, it's about the same...peel is a result of not having either or both your technique or gun dialed in just right (or using inferior materials)...bottom line, is spraying "correctly" will give you a good job one way or the other...granted some materials spray more favorably than others, but you have to learn what is "right", and how to correct for what is "wrong" at somepoint, so be it if the learning curve is a bit different.

My first two paintjobs, not knowing what I was headed for, were both using DuPont Centari acrylic enamel w/ hardener, and both were metallic...and having used the hardener, both were colorsanded and buffed up very nicely.

I always look back on them and say, they were actually fairly cruddy paintjobs (done in the driveway w/ environmental fallout, and less than glass application)...but having said that, and now knowing that I can actually save a fairly rough finish by later taking the cut and buff procedures to level it all out, I see no reason for trepidation...I don't think I was lucky, I just followed the basics in approach, and spec sheets, and achieved what was reasonable...the cost of materials for a small bit of practice is minor, and likely money well spent (if for no other reason than to dial in the gun and learn what's going on to see if you can do it).

W/ enamel, you create the effect and gloss in a single coat (as opposed to a urethane bc/cc approach where the base dries flat, and the clear adds depth)...BUT, no worries, so long as you don't do anything horendous w/ the enamel, even if it's less than stellar, and so long as it's even, you can likely fix it.

The only issue I recall on the first job, was going heavy enough on some areas that created mottling...the easy enough solution, was to wait for things to flash off, and hit it w/ a properly applied coat (or "fog" coat if need be), to rectify the surface...take a good look over the whole vehicle when you think your done, just to be certain that coverage is even.

Also keep in mind...you could spend an enormous amount of money on the "best" paint technology, and the "best" application equipment...but that doesn't guarantee you any sort of a good result w/out at least having a sound technique (granted, it's nice to have th variables stacked in your favor...I just don't see enamel as something to fear in terms of ease of application...it certainly costs less, and I think that's more a factor of production costs and material longevity, not due to lack of application preferences).

Ahh, a gallon of Centari, bugs hatching all around me, a hand me down pre-big-box store air hog siphon gun w/ marbles in it, a 30 gallon compressor that overheated and tripped the circuit breaker repeatedly, and a few less kids in the neighborhood to worry about the fumes...brings back memories. (I still have that car, a '77 MGB w/ a motor that smokes too badly to drive at the moment...my only mistake in the whole cosmetic restoration process, was to invest the money in perfectly good paint, and put it on a British car!)...believe me, you can save an otherwise fould looking job by some colorsanding...good luck, be not afraid.

[Phil V]

Alexi, I have sprayed literally thousands of full paint enamel jobs and acrylic enamel handles a LOT different than single stage urethane. The application technique is quite a bit different with acrylic enamel compared to single stage urethane. And you are treading on thin ice wetsanding (or dry sanding) a metallic single stage paint, whether it be acrylic enamel or single stage urethane actually on a couple different levels. The first problem with color coating sanding acrylic enamel is that it is VERY easy to cut through that build in thin layer of clear coat into the underlying metallics. And the second reason for not color sanding and buffing a single stage metallic paint (acrylic enamel or urethane) is that the paints UV protection is in that thin layer of clear coat. Take 2/3 to 3/4 of that clear coat off and the previous UV protection is degraded significantly.

A cheap enamel metallic paint job will never look as good as a urethane single stage or BC/CC paint job in the short term and especially in the long term.
The ONLY time I would use an acrylic enamel on a car is if the car is a beater that looks bad but runs good and not worth putting any reasonable amount of money into a paint job.

[X711]

Phil wrote

<And the second reason for not color sanding and buffing a single stage metallic paint (acrylic enamel or urethane) is that the paints UV protection is in that thin layer of clear coat.>

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Phil in the context of the thread, are you saying that the actual uv protection
in SS resides in a thin layer at the top of the paint ?

Thanks ><

[Phil V]

That is exactly what I meant to say. Even single stage non metallic paints have a percentage of clear mixed in with the pigments. The UV protection is in the clear. I'm sure you have seen single stage non metallic paints get that chalky color to them, that chalky color is a direct result of UV damage from the sun.

Actually the same rules apply to basecoat/clearcoat if you sand most of the clear coat off while getting rid of orange peel, runs etc.

[jimmy3fan]

Is there a reason you don't want to use a base/clear finish? It's a lot easier to get an even looking job using two stage paint than it is to use a single stage when spraying metallic color.

I SHOOT BC/CC AT HOME IN MY GARAGE, BUT IM A PRODUCTION PAINTER WHERE MOSTLY ALL I SPRAY IS SINGLE STAGE ENAMELS AND URETHANES AT WORK.

[Phil V]

cars or machinery ?

[jimmy3fan]

I Paint Cars

[Phil V]

I'm curious, if you are a professional painter that sprays mostly single stage paints then why you would come to an autobody/paint site geared towards novice bodymen and painters and you looking for advice on painting a single stage enamel ? Do you work for a Maaco ? (nothing wrong with that if you do work for a Maaco. Years ago I was a production painter at a Maaco in Ann Arbor, Michigan and I turned out paintjobs as good or better than any shops including dealerships in the area). I worked as a bodyman at that same Maaco for about a year and made excellent money. Equivalent today would be around $70,000 a year. I painted there for about a year and a half, the pay was decent but not as much as what I made in the bodyshop there).

[Techmaven]

How was the pay based when you did the autobody?

[Phil V]

50/50 commission + unforms + half the cost of medical insurance.