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Thread: Ruby Red solvent base coat require same primer as Envirobase?

  1. #1
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    Default Ruby Red solvent base coat require same primer as Envirobase?

    New member, hobby painter. Painting a bumper cover on 2013 Ford Escape paint code RR Tri color.
    Factory finish seems to call for PPG Chromatic gray sealer/primer of G6, water based base coat and then mid coat and clear.
    Local auto parts and supply houses don't offer water based base coat and I've never sprayed it so I'm good with solvent based.
    However, in my rural area, nobody seems to have a formula to mix a non PPG G6 primer.
    As I have read, the G6 gray is fundamental to the final color for Envirobase, but is it the same for solvent based? Does the solvent based cover better
    and thus not required?
    Thanks,

  2. #2
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    ronf has experience with that color. hopefully he'll chime in soon. there's a thread in the pre-70's section on his hotrod. and i think there's another thread where he's repairing a panel painted with the ruby red tri coat. should be some good info there.
    i'll see if i can find it.
    b marler

  3. #3
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    here it is, good stuff there. not sure if it answers your question though.
    http://autobodystore.com/forum/showt...oat-repair#top
    b marler

  4. #4
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    Any gray primer should work fine. Personally I'd use a standard epoxy primer (lightly thinned) on that bumper cover. It will come out looking exactly the same as some other "specialty" primer.

    Make sure you use adhesion promoter before applying any spray on materials. (assuming the bumper cover is new).

  5. #5
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    I read this repair topic and everything I could find on several key words and didn't see this specific question. I will go look at the project link tho.
    Thanks!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    Any gray primer should work fine. Personally I'd use a standard epoxy primer (lightly thinned) on that bumper cover. It will come out looking exactly the same as some other "specialty" primer.

    Make sure you use adhesion promoter before applying any spray on materials. (assuming the bumper cover is new).
    Its a respray of a factory bumper, I did see where someone suggested a SEM product called flex that I have never used before. Looks like the popular practice is in the primer and clear, not base. I guess it would go in the mid coat clear as well.
    Thanks

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWLIFER64 View Post
    New member, hobby painter. Painting a bumper cover on 2013 Ford Escape paint code RR Tri color.
    Factory finish seems to call for PPG Chromatic gray sealer/primer of G6, water based base coat and then mid coat and clear.
    Local auto parts and supply houses don't offer water based base coat and I've never sprayed it so I'm good with solvent based.
    However, in my rural area, nobody seems to have a formula to mix a non PPG G6 primer.
    As I have read, the G6 gray is fundamental to the final color for Envirobase, but is it the same for solvent based? Does the solvent based cover better
    and thus not required?
    Thanks,
    I shoot solvent base for all RR materials with the following products;

    1. Seal coat, Mix 2 parts- PPG DAS3025 V Seal to 1 part PPG DAS3027 V Seal will give you a proper G6 gray coat color (yes, it is instrumental to match factory paint color)
    2. Base coat PPG DBC 2000 code RR. Brand code 931662 main layer 931662/1
    3. Mid coat PPG DBC500 mid coat number 931662/2
    4. Your choice of solvent Clears, I personally use the PPG DCU2021. For just a bumper I would shoot DC3000
    5. Obviously each of these products require proper catalyst and reducers.
    6. If it is going over an ABS bumper cover you will need to hit it with an adhesion promoter first for proper application

  8. #8
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    If it's a flexible plastic bumper you should add a flex additive to the clear.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VWLIFER64 View Post
    Its a respray of a factory bumper, I did see where someone suggested a SEM product called flex that I have never used before. Looks like the popular practice is in the primer and clear, not base. I guess it would go in the mid coat clear as well.
    Thanks
    As phil stated you can use epoxy primer in place of a sealer, however be real careful which brand and epoxy primer catalyst you use. For instance, PPG DP50LF (50 denotes gray) epoxy can work for your project when a flex agent is used as the gray shade closely matches that of G6. However, TDS specifically states you cannot use the DP402LF fast catalyst on flexible parts (you would need to use DP401FL mixed at a rate of 2:1:1/2). I mentioned the above products I use as they are specific for matching the Ford RR code and utilize DX814 flex agent in all required coating products needing such, specifically the DAS V Seal and DCU2021 CC. BC and mid coat do not require a flex agent when using the products I suggested. The SEM product Len suggests will absolutely work in place of the PPG DX814 flex as I have used it with great success in other tri coat shots.

    Tri coat paint isn't that much different from a 2 stage paint job other than the mid coat might be one that matches the base elements of the BC or might be one that matches elements of the CC. This element of the paint structure does make a difference when trying to understand compatibility of materials. I have done 2 full spray jobs with tri coats (white and silver) and a few panels with no problems. However, on my custom build hot rod that is getting the Ford RR code, this job is an animal all too it's own in my opinion. This is the main reason I stuck with one product line and closely follow the TDS. The products for this paint code are not cheap and you will need to keep mistakes to a minimum.

    I highly recommend you go to www.ppgrefinish.com and look up tech bulletin TBRR-3 dated 12/2013.

  10. #10
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    Thanks everyone for the information and advice. I'm going to learn so much here, don't know what took me so long to join.

  11. #11
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    There's something to keep in mind when spraying three stage paint. That mid-stage is almost always translucent and will change as you apply a second or third or fourth coat so in order to get a good match it usually pays to spray test panels with different amounts of the mid-coat in order to see how many coats it takes to get a good match.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    There's something to keep in mind when spraying three stage paint. That mid-stage is almost always translucent and will change as you apply a second or third or fourth coat so in order to get a good match it usually pays to spray test panels with different amounts of the mid-coat in order to see how many coats it takes to get a good match.
    I've read that. On the test panels, does just painting the mid (1 coat, 2 coat, 3 coat) provide the final look for comparison or should each test panel get a true clear before comparison?
    Thanks,

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWLIFER64 View Post
    I've read that. On the test panels, does just painting the mid (1 coat, 2 coat, 3 coat) provide the final look for comparison or should each test panel get a true clear before comparison?
    Thanks,
    This is not a product or process you want to take chances with. I make color cards for all of my full sprays and most repairs. Below is my color card for my RR project. I not only spray all coats from primer to cc, I also sand the card out exactly how I will apply it to project including buff out. As always Len is dead on when he speaks of mid translucent (carries your tinted pearl) application will change your tones. The more prep work you put in the better the finish. Even though my project is a custom variant from the Ford RR I used all the same exact products called for from PPG. I will need this formula down the road when I have touch ups and possible repairs. When producing the color card I shot my Sun Gun over the panel. Taking panel into the sun was the final deciding factor.

    As a note, you need to absolutely make sure you have your gun settings and patterns down prior to the cards being shot as you want to eliminate variants in product application from cards to project on this particular tri coat RR shot.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    This is not a product or process you want to take chances with. I make color cards for all of my full sprays and most repairs. Below is my color card for my RR project. I not only spray all coats from primer to cc, I also sand the card out exactly how I will apply it to project including buff out. As always Len is dead on when he speaks of mid translucent (carries your tinted pearl) application will change your tones. The more prep work you put in the better the finish. Even though my project is a custom variant from the Ford RR I used all the same exact products called for from PPG. I will need this formula down the road when I have touch ups and possible repairs. When producing the color card I shot my Sun Gun over the panel. Taking panel into the sun was the final deciding factor.

    As a note, you need to absolutely make sure you have your gun settings and patterns down prior to the cards being shot as you want to eliminate variants in product application from cards to project on this particular tri coat RR shot.

    Dang. Now thatís the way. Iím trying to be that guy but have a ways to go!
    But itís good to hear the specifics from those that have figured it out.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWLIFER64 View Post
    Dang. Now thatís the way. Iím trying to be that guy but have a ways to go!
    But itís good to hear the specifics from those that have figured it out.
    On your 2013 Ford Escape you do not need or want to do all the sanding steps I did as it will not match your factory orange peel. You could very easily just shoot it after proper prep work, buff out and be done. However any imperfections will require a degree of wet sanding and buffing.

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