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Thread: Painting over bad job

  1. #1
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    Default Painting over bad job

    thanks for accepting my membership...

    So a little background.... it has been a while since I used 'hot rod' paints (70s/80s) and I know paints have changed a lot. So, I started a project for my wife then will start mine (65F100). My relative that works at Maaco said they would come help because paints have changed and I wanted to learn a little about them. So here it goes -

    Sanded original paint almost down to the metal on 77 C10.... did 2:1 Duplicolor Primer/Surfacer... dry sanded, then after couple of hours, put two, quick, heavy coats of Restoration Shop Acrylic Enamel Hot Rod Red on it. Paint looks like crap and I'm not happy with 'A Relative' that did the job.

    So - going to buy good paint - Urethane Hot Rod Red so at least it matches. It has been 30 years so my question will be short and sweet. Do I wet sand down enough to get rid of the imperfections and spray over or, sand off all the current red that I can back to the primer, re-prime or will the wet-sand work? I know he did put hardener in the Acrylic Enamel SS. It looks flawless and very shiny from 20'... from 20" it looks like a 13 year old kid with pimples every where. Any advice would be grateful !! I know I should have done it the right way MYSELF but, he knows everything and wanted to help.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyphil View Post
    thanks for accepting my membership...

    So a little background.... it has been a while since I used 'hot rod' paints (70s/80s) and I know paints have changed a lot. So, I started a project for my wife then will start mine (65F100). My relative that works at Maaco said they would come help because paints have changed and I wanted to learn a little about them. So here it goes -

    Sanded original paint almost down to the metal on 77 C10.... did 2:1 Duplicolor Primer/Surfacer... dry sanded, then after couple of hours, put two, quick, heavy coats of Restoration Shop Acrylic Enamel Hot Rod Red on it. Paint looks like crap and I'm not happy with 'A Relative' that did the job.

    So - going to buy good paint - Urethane Hot Rod Red so at least it matches. It has been 30 years so my question will be short and sweet. Do I wet sand down enough to get rid of the imperfections and spray over or, sand off all the current red that I can back to the primer, re-prime or will the wet-sand work? I know he did put hardener in the Acrylic Enamel SS. It looks flawless and very shiny from 20'... from 20" it looks like a 13 year old kid with pimples every where. Any advice would be grateful !! I know I should have done it the right way MYSELF but, he knows everything and wanted to help.

    Thanks in advance.
    Welcome aboard!
    If he used a decent two part paint you should be able to just sand out the imperfections and spray your new paint on top. Just make sure that the bad paint job is fully cured prior to putting on more paint. Also, you may want to do a small test spot to make sure you're not going to get a bad reaction.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2021
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    Len,

    He used a packaged product from Restoration Shop that came with the hardener - which we did 8:1 by the instructions. I have another buddy coming by today and he believes it to be a compilation of things once I gave him more info: 1 - he didn't let the primer dry for more than 30 minutes after sanding.... Mark said lacquer needs to 'breathe' for at least a couple of hours if not three especially primer/surfacer (we put three coats on it). 2 - when we were cleaning up (blowing out the garage), he turned on the air to get the room cool, it was about 88F in the garage and we got it down to 78F but, he kept the air on while painting (probably stirring up left-over dust). and 3 (and Mark said most important) he was in a hurry to get done and sprayed two heavy coats back-to-back with no reducer (which this kit states is optional but -) Mark said he should have hit the first coat with at least 2-3% reducer especially with a 1.4mm tip and a 35 gallon tank that is going to run and produce water if he didn't take his time and do the truck in sections.

    I really do appreciate the help.... I'm 53 and haven't painted since early 80s - 90's when my dad had his shop and I know paints have changed a lot. I did a tremendous amount of research online. I should have done this myself but, I wanted to give the kid a chance because he wants to move from just body work to paint - think now I know why he is stuck on body work.........

  4. #4
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    Here is the paint....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    Sounds like a series of unfortunate events. Do we understand that you used lacquer primer under the acrylic enamel? That would make me stop and reevaluate the whole situation. Whatís the goal? Do you want a finish that lasts? Or does it just need to look good for a few years?
    If this vehicle is a keeper, Iíd strip all that back off. Lacquer primer never stops shrinking and youíll see scratch marks showing up as it shrinks over the years.
    Itís too bad you didnít check in for advice before going down that road, people here could have recommended cost effective products that would been a much better choice.
    b marler

  6. #6
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    I was putting my faith in him to do the right thing honestly. He used Duplicolor Primer Surfacer for the primer.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyphil View Post
    I was putting my faith in him to do the right thing honestly. He used Duplicolor Primer Surfacer for the primer.
    most of us stopped using lacquer primer a very long time ago. like i said, if it's a keeper, i'd consider stripping it all off. i would if it were mine.
    b marler

  8. #8
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    Sep 2021
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    Marler -

    On a side note... I still have connections in the paint industry and a buddy of mine called last night and has a gallon of Eastwood's Contour Polyester Primer Surfacer he doesn't need and said he would sell it to me for $25.00 ... been sitting about 6 months because he went a different route.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2020
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    Default A good cut & buff can work wonders

    I wouldnít stress so much about the lacquer primer, hell, thatís what was primarily used back thenÖ but as Marler stated, itís all about what your expectations are.

    Yes, paints have evolved tremendously since the days of using acrylic lacquer/enamels, but when you think back thatís what was being used for decades.

    I would first suggest that since the paint is a SS solid red with hardener you can always wet sand as you suggested to get out the imperfections and then buff & polish out.

    A good cut & buff can work wonders on a not so good paint job.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    I wouldnít stress so much about the lacquer primer, hell, thatís what was primarily used back thenÖ but as Marler stated, itís all about what your expectations are.

    Yes, paints have evolved tremendously since the days of using acrylic lacquer/enamels, but when you think back thatís what was being used for decades.

    I would first suggest that since the paint is a SS solid red with hardener you can always wet sand as you suggested to get out the imperfections and then buff & polish out.

    A good cut & buff can work wonders on a not so good paint job.
    Well - Mark showed up last night with a bag of goodies... lots of sandpaper and his DA.... LOL.. we worked the DAs with 320, Red Scotch bright soaked in (Ajax and water - old school stuff).... smooth as a - well you know. Going to let it sit today because I want to ensure the primer sits a little longer exposed to the air... will shoot it tomorrow and post pics on Sunday or Monday.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyphil View Post
    I was putting my faith in him to do the right thing honestly. He used Duplicolor Primer Surfacer for the primer.
    Perhaps late to the party. I know very little to nothing about paint yet. But I to have been misled by people that "know" what they are doing. it happens, you want to trust people, that is upstanding. Frustrating I know but don't give up. You have someone, and this forum to help you out moving forward. Looks like you have a plan as well. The first guy may have been taught wrong or something. Not always his fault either.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  12. #12

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    You mentioned being 53 and you painted in the 80s and 90s. I am 52 and worked a shop back in 90s as well. Even then no one barely used lacquer or enamel anymore...LOL!

    That lacquer primer is what is going to bite you in the ass in the end. Even if you sand what you have, seal with epoxy and shoot a urethane you still will get shrinking and issues from that lacquer. Remember painting 101 your top coat is only as good as what is underneath it.

    My suggestion is take those two DAs you guys have, buy a box of 80 grit stik it discs and strip that thing back down to bare and start over. In fact sand most of that 2K enamel off you can use rags soaked in lacquer thinner to get the rest off. It will be a mess but it is doable.

    Sometimes it is easier and wiser to just completely cut bait on a situation and start from new other then pile more time and $$$ on top of a known questionable base.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastardbus View Post
    You mentioned being 53 and you painted in the 80s and 90s. I am 52 and worked a shop back in 90s as well. Even then no one barely used lacquer or enamel anymore...LOL!

    That lacquer primer is what is going to bite you in the ass in the end. Even if you sand what you have, seal with epoxy and shoot a urethane you still will get shrinking and issues from that lacquer. Remember painting 101 your top coat is only as good as what is underneath it.

    My suggestion is take those two DAs you guys have, buy a box of 80 grit stik it discs and strip that thing back down to bare and start over. In fact sand most of that 2K enamel off you can use rags soaked in lacquer thinner to get the rest off. It will be a mess but it is doable.

    Sometimes it is easier and wiser to just completely cut bait on a situation and start from new other then pile more time and $$$ on top of a known questionable base.
    Already started.... that's why I haven't sent any new pics.

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