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Thread: Process question

  1. #31
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    Sorry Ben forgot to attach pic
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  2. #32

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    Based on what I am seeing so far in the sanding process I think shooting the whole thing with a wet on wet or epoxy seal coat is going to be my best option. Anyone have a good guess on how much material this is going to take?
    Last edited by Ben Niesen; 07-22-2021 at 07:25 PM.

  3. #33
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    Depending on the product you use just under 2 qts for a single coat will give you plenty left over. You "might" be able to stretch a single qt if spraying is dead on from start.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Depending on the product you use just under 2 qts for a single coat will give you plenty left over. You "might" be able to stretch a single qt if spraying is dead on from start.
    it's a drop top falcon. i bet a quart would do it. but you're right, he'll want to be right on the money from the get-go.
    b marler

  5. #35

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    I went ahead and picked up 2 quarts. If I only use on that is alright, I have other projects. Chances are pretty good I won't come out of the gate spraying that perfect film build. Thanks for the help!

  6. #36

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    0727211556.jpg

    Sanding is finally done. Need to remask and prep the garage to shoot in the AM. I wanted to post my plan and make sure I'm not doing anything I shouldn't.

    Dampen the floor, start the air moving, start mixing primer.

    Sealer/Primer: Omni MP170 epoxy
    Mixing ratio 2:1:0.5 resin/hardener/acetone
    Mix, let stand 15 minutes, spray. Should I go ahead and mix a full quart (3.5 sprayable pints) to start, knowing it will take at least that much to shoot the car?
    Wait a minimum of 30 minutes but less than 3 days before base

    Mix base, redamp floor

    Base coat: omni 1:1 base to reducer.
    I am planning on using slow reducer, shop temp will be around 75 I know the sheet says this is medium reducer temp but I understand that it is better to spray with 1 step slower reducer when shooting metallics?
    2 full coats, one drop coat
    By the time I have the gun cleaned this should be flashed and ready for me to mix clear

    Mix clear, redamp floor

    Clear: TCP 4:1 urethane I think this is the same as Upol https://www.u-pol.com/files/2338/up2882-TDS-EN hardener is 2323.
    This tech sheet states you can thin it with urethane reducer but gives no mixing guidance. What do i mix it to? Shooting through a Sagola extreme 4600 with 1.3 tip.

    2 coats of clear or 3? If I can cover in 2 it seems to make sense only to shoot 2, so I don't build texture, I am trying hard not to color sand this car if I can avoid it. Essentially, if the clear is looking flat at flash time should I leave it alone and if it looks like it is going to need color sanding go ahead and spray a 3rd coat for film build?
    Last edited by Ben Niesen; 07-27-2021 at 05:27 PM.

  7. #37
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    You have the option (one I personally would take) to mix half the qt. to Mixing ratio 2:1:0.5 with the remaining product measured out in separate containers and not mixed. Because it calls for acetone as a reducer I would give a full hour for flash prior to bc/cc.

    Rest of plan looks good, however I would shoot 3 coats of clear. If your CC breaks you need a way to sand and correct surface without breaking through to bc. Thinning is done by trial and error, unfortunately I have no experience with that product. I would think a 4:1:1 would be fine, but again I have no experience with that product. If it goes on as planned I wouldn't reduce. Use a wall board and practice piece prior to hitting car.

  8. #38
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    Dampen the floor, start the air moving, start mixing primer.

    Always be careful when dampening the floor that you don't wet the surface you'll be painting.

    Sealer/Primer: Omni MP170 epoxy
    Mixing ratio 2:1:0.5 resin/hardener/acetone
    Mix, let stand 15 minutes, spray. Should I go ahead and mix a full quart (3.5 sprayable pints) to start, knowing it will take at least that much to shoot the car?
    Wait a minimum of 30 minutes but less than 3 days before base

    I haven't sprayed Omni but that sounds good.

    Mix base, redamp floor

    Be real careful not to get water on the panels you'll be spraying.

    Base coat: omni 1:1 base to reducer.
    I am planning on using slow reducer, shop temp will be around 75 I know the sheet says this is medium reducer temp but I understand that it is better to spray with 1 step slower reducer when shooting metallics?
    2 full coats, one drop coat
    By the time I have the gun cleaned this should be flashed and ready for me to mix clear

    Mix clear, redamp floor

    I normally don't re-dampen the floor when I'm spraying my color or clear because I don't want to take the chance AND any dust is normally stuck to the floor by previous wetting.

    Clear: TCP 4:1 urethane I think this is the same as Upol https://www.u-pol.com/files/2338/up2882-TDS-EN hardener is 2323.
    This tech sheet states you can thin it with urethane reducer but gives no mixing guidance. What do i mix it to? Shooting through a Sagola extreme 4600 with 1.3 tip.

    Many of the less expensive clears already have reducer mixed in but you can add some if you need it. 10 to 20 percent.

    2 coats of clear or 3? If I can cover in 2 it seems to make sense only to shoot 2, so I don't build texture, I am trying hard not to color sand this car if I can avoid it. Essentially, if the clear is looking flat at flash time should I leave it alone and if it looks like it is going to need color sanding go ahead and spray a 3rd coat for film build?

    I normally spray one coat and allow it to flash for about 15 to 30 minutes then spray the second not too heavy then a third.
    Use care where your passes overlap because that's the place where you can get the worst runs.


    Wear good breath protection. Supplied air is the best.

  9. #39

    Default Fish eyes

    I don't know what happened. I spent 3 hours cleaning this thing thie morning, finished with soy based wax and grease remover, tacked with beeswax cloth. The seal coat over the whole front of the car is totally jacked, I have no idea what to do or how to keep it from happening again.0728211119a.jpg0728211119.jpg

    I haven't ever had problems like this before. The rest of the car looks good except a couple of odd hairs, I completely spaced putting on my suit before I started... big thing to forget. For whatever reason I start to rush when I put my respirator on, and I put my respirator on early so I could get the epoxy mixed.

    So what do I do about these fish eyes? Soft block with 600, DA with 600 on interface pad and strip back to old primer and spray again? It is pretty much the entire hood and top of the fenders. Can the couple little odd spots elsewhere be sanded and spotted in with sealer?

    Gun worked well, my technique is just a little lacking. There is one spot on the trunk where I got distracted or something and got the gun close for a split second which has some zebra stripe texture that I am going to have to deal with.

    I cant bear the thought of blocking the whole car again.

    Whatever I do, I have a 3 day window on this primer, otherwise its a complete rescuff. If I need to do that what do I use? Grey scotchbrite?
    Last edited by Ben Niesen; 07-28-2021 at 01:05 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Niesen View Post
    I don't know what happened. I spent 3 hours cleaning this thing thie morning, finished with soy based wax and grease remover, tacked with beeswax cloth. The seal coat over the whole front of the car is totally jacked, I have no idea what to do or how to keep it from happening again.0728211119a.jpg0728211119.jpg

    I haven't ever had problems like this before. The rest of the car looks good except a couple of odd hairs, I completely spaced putting on my suit before I started... big thing to forget. For whatever reason I start to rush when I put my respirator on, and I put my respirator on early so I could get the epoxy mixed.

    So what do I do about these fish eyes? Soft block with 600, DA with 600 on interface pad and strip back to old primer and spray again? It is pretty much the entire hood and top of the fenders. Can the couple little odd spots elsewhere be sanded and spotted in with sealer?

    Gun worked well, my technique is just a little lacking. There is one spot on the trunk where I got distracted or something and got the gun close for a split second which has some zebra stripe texture that I am going to have to deal with.

    I cant bear the thought of blocking the whole car again.

    Whatever I do, I have a 3 day window on this primer, otherwise its a complete rescuff. If I need to do that what do I use? Grey scotchbrite?
    I believe a couple things happened. Some areas show product applied to heavy. Also, when you did final W&G remover clean did you immediately wipe off with clean towel? You cannot let W&G remover sit on surface, it's a wipe on and wipe off product on a few (6-8) sq. ft. at a time. Did you use a tack cloth for final wipe? Lastly, you don't need to apply more sealer/epoxy. I would wait another 24 hours, scratch to 600 wet and spray bc/cc. Lastly, if you applied more than a single coat of primer how long did you let it flash between coats.

  11. #41

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    Single coat, 1.3 tip. Applied wax and grease remover with pump sprayer, Wiped the w&g until gone, brand new paint cloth every time I got to saturation.

    Coating IS heavy. Very first time using the gun, and it is much faster than anything I have sprayed with before. By the time I got to the second front fender I had a lot more control of what was happening. The sides and rear as pretty smooth.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Niesen View Post
    Single coat, 1.3 tip. Applied wax and grease remover with pump sprayer, Wiped the w&g until gone, brand new paint cloth every time I got to saturation.

    Coating IS heavy. Very first time using the gun, and it is much faster than anything I have sprayed with before. By the time I got to the second front fender I had a lot more control of what was happening. The sides and rear as pretty smooth.
    I think this is a simple case of getting use to a new gun. We all struggle with new guns until we find the characteristics of what the gun wants. This certainly isn't a disaster and for most part things look good but need a little correction. If this was in my shop I would wait 24-48 hours, scratch 600 wet and go straight to bc/cc. The 600 wet scratch is light and fast, takes very little time. Personally I would hand block the 600 as it gives me more control with no break throughs, remember it is a light sanding in which you should not have any break throughs.

  13. #43
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    I don't know if I'd go to base from there. I've seen that Omni product do that before. It makes me nervous. I guess at least if the base isn't hardened you could stop if you see it having trouble.
    b marler

  14. #44
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    Be sure that your compressor air is filtered properly.

  15. #45

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    Compressor filtration seems to be working fine, water separator and dessicant are fresh and clean. Cleaned the gun prior to starting and ran some reducer through for good measure. I try to keep everything very clean, minimize contact etc. Somewhere I made a screw up... Maybe residual water in the air hose? I don't keep the dessicant dryer loaded when I am running other tools.

    The surface really looks good everywhere except these panels, there is a slight "fuzz" to the surface as well, overspray maybe, does it need knocked off before I proceed? If so, sand or scotch brite of some flavor?

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