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Thread: Unsure if this is solvent pop or fisheyes.

  1. #1
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    Default Unsure if this is solvent pop or fisheyes.

    Okay here it goes, I am using single stage Summit Racing royal blue metallic pearl. I have a 40 micron filter at beginning of compressor/airhose, then a desiccant filter at end of hose along with a merlin (HF) filter at spray gun, then regulator. I shot the paint at 25 PSI and then 28 psi due to getting bubbles both times. The bubbles tend to occur in the first coat of paint, didn't have any trouble from what I remember with the sealer/epoxy/primer. I also use spray away glass cleaner and wipe with a microfiber towel, then prep all with clean shop towel, then tack cloth. I have been painting outside and in a enclosed outdoor portable carport but no change in regards to the bubbles. Temp was around 75*, humidity I think near 60% but not really sure, I used a slow activator, 4 parts single stage to one part activator, then 1/2 a part of pearl stabilizer and less than that of slow reducer. It seems to happen moreso on horizontal surfaces vs vertical surfaces that I am painting. Using a HF black widow with a 1.3 tip, fluid wide open and fan pattern nearly wide open. Not sure if using Monster blue thread sealant non PTFE is all of a sudden causing problems with the paint due to airline contamination or if something else is taking place. I have literally spent more than a gallon of paint due to this issue because of the hood having to sand and redo multiple times and now having to do again. I also tried to change from a wet coat to a lighter coat but still has the same effect. Paint looks great in the sun but as soon as the shade comes you can see a thousand little bubbles. The pics mostly show what the bubbles look like after sanding. 186286080_212628820472569_4711612959897175997_n.jpg191015493_481211613150045_8516539169659749406_n.jpg
    Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Nick.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Consider “air entrapment” if this is limited to flat surfaces. Contamination would occur everywhere (I would think).
    Some of your problem looks like dirt nibs.
    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Alfred E. Newman

  3. #3
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    Default

    looks like fish eyes to me. But can't guarantee that without being there in person to get a good view first hand.

  4. #4
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    Default Test Panel

    Why not try a clean test panel or 2 and see what the out come is?

  5. #5
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    Default Some more pics

    Sanding will eventually remove them, but I know you really aren't suppose to be sanding metallic, plus it takes forever to get everything the same. I'll try a few test panels and see if I can figure something else out. I have an old hood that I can tape off and do a 1/4 at a time and see what happens. It also happens when I'm in the portable garage, despite watering the ground before spraying. If it happens again I will take a pic before I would have started sanding to let you all see what the bubble looks like. We literally tack cloth the thing seconds before spraying, maybe the pollen is just really bad this year and is screwing things up.
    191162626_749258222423098_6458822156250153101_n.jpg190627846_312995360433748_4864044820072239417_n.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    I agree with Phil it appears to be fish eyes but it's a little difficult to tell in the pictures. Solvent pop tends to be smaller pin holes and/or tiny bubbles in the paint.

    Fish eyes can be cause by contaminants on the surface or contaminants in the air while spraying. In most cases proper application and wiping of a good solvent cleaner can eliminate the fish eye problem. Using a pump sprayer like the one below is the best tool we've found to eliminate this problem. Spray an area about 3' square then wipe it with a clean paper towel do another 3' area and use a new paper towel to wipe it. Just prior to starting to spray wipe the surface with a good tack cloth. Use a dedicated solvent cleaner NOT lacquer thinner or enamel reducer.




  7. #7
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    I have been using prep-all, is that good enough, or something stronger? I didn't wipe with a new towel each time so will try that. There is bubbles in the paint until I sand them, feels like tiny hills all over the paint job, but when sanding them or picking at them I never see any debris come out. I will do what you all suggest and see if I can figure it out. Thanks again

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbnbrb123 View Post
    I have been using prep-all, is that good enough, or something stronger? I didn't wipe with a new towel each time so will try that. There is bubbles in the paint until I sand them, feels like tiny hills all over the paint job, but when sanding them or picking at them I never see any debris come out. I will do what you all suggest and see if I can figure it out. Thanks again
    The Prep-All should be fine, spray it on with a pump sprayer or one like I showed then wipe it off. If you have tiny bubbles in the paint then you could have solvent pop which can be caused by not allowing the color to dry enough before applying your clear OR not allowing the clear to flash/dry between coats. Don't dump the paint on too heavily. However if the paint is applied too dry it can cause it to be rough like sandpaper so it's a delicate balance.

  9. #9
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    it looks like junk in the paint to me. i don't see any craters like fisheye leaves. these seem like they're proud of the surface. it's more pronounced on the horizontal surface too, like trash falling on the panel would tend to do. i'd stop using the microfiber and any other cloth rags for prep, just use clean paper towels. maybe you have stuff falling off your body or air hose as you paint too?
    b marler

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    it looks like junk in the paint to me. i don't see any craters like fisheye leaves. these seem like they're proud of the surface. it's more pronounced on the horizontal surface too, like trash falling on the panel would tend to do. i'd stop using the microfiber and any other cloth rags for prep, just use clean paper towels. maybe you have stuff falling off your body or air hose as you paint too?
    So would I be able to just spray the single stage, then clear over, then buff? I had done that once before but could see black specs in the paint after buffing, maybe I am being too hard on myself, just want it to look decent due to being my grandfather's 85 squarebody pickup. Suppose to rain all weekend so not sure if I will have a chance to paint. Thanks

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbnbrb123 View Post
    So would I be able to just spray the single stage, then clear over, then buff? I had done that once before but could see black specs in the paint after buffing, maybe I am being too hard on myself, just want it to look decent due to being my grandfather's 85 squarebody pickup. Suppose to rain all weekend so not sure if I will have a chance to paint. Thanks
    if you're seeing specks in the paint it's coming from you, the air, or the gun. if you don't have a real booth to spray in, you'll have a certain amount of trash in the paint no matter how hard you try to avoid it.
    since you're shooting metallic, you'll have to accept and compromise that there may be imperfections. i'd sand everything smooth with 600, shoot some more of the blue, and clear it. then cut and buff the clear. if the blue and the clear are compatible you can spray it all in the same session maybe? i'm not sure of what exactly what paint system you're using. you said single stage for the blue? most people don't clear over single stage. i've done it though, and it makes a certain amount of sense to do it over metallic so you can sand and buff.
    b marler

  12. #12
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    I never seen fish eyes silicone contamination like that..


    To me, more like solvent pop, too much too fast too soon ...it is thr season for solvent issues

    But this dude says he followed all the protocol for slow application..

    ??

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by baubau View Post
    I never seen fish eyes silicone contamination like that..


    To me, more like solvent pop, too much too fast too soon ...it is thr season for solvent issues

    But this dude says he followed all the protocol for slow application..

    ??
    i don't think it's solvent pop, it really just looks like trash in the paint. he's in a portable garage, (costco tent? dirt floor?) this stuff (the defects) is solid through as he's sanding it. no bubbles like solvent pop or air entrapment, no craters like fisheye. i think it's just stuff falling on his paint. any little breeze will shake dust free from the roof.
    using the same gun for primer and paint? there could be stuff coming from the gun. but if it's mostly on the horizontal surfaces it's probably not that. really, i'd wetsand it smooth, shoot it with color, clear it, cut and buff. if there's any specks in the paint, hopefully they won't stand out too much.
    double strain the paint too, just in case.
    i looked briefly at the summit paint. i understand they use sherwin williams for the base/clear and kirker for the single stage. hopefully they are compatible, i would imagine they are. they're both urethane. just follow the recoat times.
    b marler

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    i don't think it's solvent pop, it really just looks like trash in the paint. he's in a portable garage, (costco tent? dirt floor?) this stuff (the defects) is solid through as he's sanding it. no bubbles like solvent pop or air entrapment, no craters like fisheye. i think it's just stuff falling on his paint. any little breeze will shake dust free from the roof.
    using the same gun for primer and paint? there could be stuff coming from the gun. but if it's mostly on the horizontal surfaces it's probably not that. really, i'd wetsand it smooth, shoot it with color, clear it, cut and buff. if there's any specks in the paint, hopefully they won't stand out too much.
    double strain the paint too, just in case.
    i looked briefly at the summit paint. i understand they use sherwin williams for the base/clear and kirker for the single stage. hopefully they are compatible, i would imagine they are. they're both urethane. just follow the recoat times.
    I agree.
    I get the exact same thing if I miss an area with the tack rag.

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