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Thread: F**k !!!!

  1. #16
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    Default Hmmmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    I’m sure your right, I just don’t know enough to know what I don’t know. I’ve read everywhere I can think of to get a straight answer to what actually NEEDS to be done to have a viable surface to work on but it seems like a straight answer doesn’t exist. And the couple things I thought I was certain about have failed me so far.

    For instance the rep says to go down to bare metal.. See comment below.
    Experienced painters have told me not to do that since the truck has only been painted once, in a professional environment by professional painters (or machines maybe, I dunno) and hasn’t been messed with until now. I don’t see how my untrained ass is gonna do a better job priming and coating the truck than Toyota did. TRUE if you have a SOLID FOUNDATION (see below).

    I’ve done very little body work on this thing, so I was under the impression I could just hit those areas with 2k and go to town. I didn’t know what a sealer was until maybe a week ago, lol. Let the PRIMER suffice if you even need one - see below.

    With the hood, I know for a fact I sprayed entirely too heavy, probably didn’t time my coats well enough and then went back immediately, trying to cover the areas that hadn’t received proper coverage due to the paint appearing to be striped.. Either the nozzle was clogged or my pressure was too high or both. I’m not sure if that’s why the paint crinkled or if it was due to the rustoleum but I know that if I strip it down to factory base or even primer, both of those materials will be gone and I’ll be back to oem, mostly untouched materials. The assortment of different PRODUCTS caused your main problems.

    Then again, like I said earlier every time I think I know what I’m doing with this thing, reality steps in and reminds me that reading and watching YouTube videos does not equal knowledge.
    Gets confusing, for sure.

    One thing is certain, however, don't add any more product to what's already on that hood. The main ingredient in doing this work on any panel of the vehicle boils down to SOLID FOUNDATION.

    SO, with that said, what condition was the OEM hood in? IF in fact it was a solid panel with no paint flaws then you shouldn't have to chemically strip the hood. And by the way, if you DO use chemical stripper, it WILL go all the way down to the metal (and often is needed to). We cannot SEE or know what you are able to see & know.

    Your alternative is sand it all down to get back to a SOLID FOUNDATION and judge from there. It's really not that much work although it may seem monumental right now.

    So, sand it down to what you can effectively primer and/or paint on. Phil was right in that you really may not need a sealer. In many situations (perhaps NOT yours) with a solid OEM finish you DO NOT need primer. Just scuff the old and apply the new if over a solid foundation! Oh and NO BUZZ BOMB products.

    Something else you said about you kept spraying because you had some stripes. Listen, spray each coat complete and walk away. No need to solely count the minutes because the feel is equally important as well as look. As for uneven application of the first or prior coats, you'll make that up on the next coats. DO NOT overload paint in an attempt to correct a problem which only results in TOO thick of a paint application that will only cause problems.

    The other questionable is that gun you are using. That 1.7 hose is way too big, however, can be dialed back (maybe). Maybe test sprays would be in order with adjustments to get you in the right situation BEFORE spraying the vehicle parts. Try some old metal parts for practice.

    Lastly, sealer has its place. Primer is needed for any bare metal or repair areas. Keep us posted.

    Henry

  2. #17
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    Default

    you can also strip it with 80grit on a rotary. i hate chemical strippers as they're so messy. it's a preference thing really. some folks like stripper, some don't. unlike phil, i use dedicated 2k urethane sealer fairly regularly. usually if i've done a spot repair and have a mix of original factory finish and 2k primer from the repair i'll shoot a seal coat just prior to paint as it evens out the color and the new paint hides more easily.
    if i have the whole thing in 2k primer i probably won't use a sealer.
    some folks like reduced epoxy for sealer, i like urethane. again just preference.
    b marler

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    you can also strip it with 80grit on a rotary. i hate chemical strippers as they're so messy. it's a preference thing really. some folks like stripper, some don't. unlike phil, i use dedicated 2k urethane sealer fairly regularly. usually if i've done a spot repair and have a mix of original factory finish and 2k primer from the repair i'll shoot a seal coat just prior to paint as it evens out the color and the new paint hides more easily.
    if i have the whole thing in 2k primer i probably won't use a sealer.
    some folks like reduced epoxy for sealer, i like urethane. again just preference.
    Thatís pretty much exactly where I landed. From what I gather I can sand with A da, 80 grit to bare metal, then work my way back up to 240, after cleaning and degreasing. Then spray nason 421-10 dtm 2k urethane primer. Block sand, spray a coat of the same primer, reduced. No sanding, base over it within 2 hours max.

    Reading previous posts it sounds like I should only need one quart of dtm primer with the appropriate amount of activator. Nason calls for a primer to sealer modifier (401-75) if I am going to spray reduced primer to spray as a sealer.

    Base coat : light
    Base coat : medium
    Base coat: medium

    Tape for graphics
    Spray in same manner
    Clear coat - 3 coats
    Consume multiple beers
    Travel down to Islamorada : drink more beers and catch redfish/snook
    Recover
    Cut and buff

    Please let me know if any of this sounds out of whack or unnecessary. (Any steps involving beer and fish are non-negotiable)
    Thanks again.

  4. #19
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    Gave the truck a bath in epoxy primer the other today and block sanded. When I looked this morning, I see lots of light scratches. Dirty sandpaper maybe?
    Iím guessing I need to get rid of all of these little baby scratches or they will show through?
    Thanks.
    93FB6BCE-51D8-4AE9-BDDB-91474C8F24DB.jpg

    7B073E25-E20E-4903-B5DA-3E3BBDC69D57.jpg

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Gave the truck a bath in epoxy primer the other today and block sanded. When I looked this morning, I see lots of light scratches. Dirty sandpaper maybe?
    Iím guessing I need to get rid of all of these little baby scratches or they will show through?
    Thanks.
    93FB6BCE-51D8-4AE9-BDDB-91474C8F24DB.jpg

    7B073E25-E20E-4903-B5DA-3E3BBDC69D57.jpg
    We rarely sand epoxy primer, we normally apply a 2k filler primer on top then block sand with some 400 or 600 wet paper before painting. You're right, if you have noticeable scratches they could show in your finish. If you're sanding your "epoxy" primer it can cause nibs to form on your sandpaper which can cause the scratches.

  6. #21
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    Youíre right it didnít sand the way I had expected. I block sanded with 400 to smooth it out plus I had a couple runs to deal with. I broke through in a couple spots and will be respraying once I deal with those and with the spots where I applied putty. Sounds like the block sanding was a waste of time I gather? I figured I needed to even out the epoxy so that Iím starting off with a smooth surface. So I should be applying 2k filler primer next and then block sanding?

    8:30 am and Iím already learning something new 👍

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Youíre right it didnít sand the way I had expected. I block sanded with 400 to smooth it out plus I had a couple runs to deal with. I broke through in a couple spots and will be respraying once I deal with those and with the spots where I applied putty. Sounds like the block sanding was a waste of time I gather? I figured I needed to even out the epoxy so that Iím starting off with a smooth surface. So I should be applying 2k filler primer next and then block sanding?

    8:30 am and Iím already learning something new 👍
    We always block sand our filler primer but not the epoxy primer. The epoxy primer is used to make sure you have a good bond with the substrate not for tweaking the leveling of the surface.

  8. #23
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    adding to lens good advice,
    epoxy has a recoat window. ideally you want to be in that window when you apply the filler primer. a lot of the epoxy manufacturers recommend that if you are out of the window you should sand, recoat with epoxy and then cover with whatever is next.
    it seems like an extra step, but i do it. in that instance i'll over reduce it so it sprays like sealer, then go with filler primer in the same session.
    i'm sure there are people that just put the filler primer over sanded epoxy, maybe they have good results. i prefer to follow manufacturers recommendations.
    b marler

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    adding to lens good advice,
    epoxy has a recoat window. ideally you want to be in that window when you apply the filler primer. a lot of the epoxy manufacturers recommend that if you are out of the window you should sand, recoat with epoxy and then cover with whatever is next.
    it seems like an extra step, but i do it. in that instance i'll over reduce it so it sprays like sealer, then go with filler primer in the same session.
    i'm sure there are people that just put the filler primer over sanded epoxy, maybe they have good results. i prefer to follow manufacturers recommendations.
    That’s what I was thinking. Sand, recoat epoxy and go from there.

    I have 2 questions though:

    1. If I can get the epoxy to an acceptable level of finish, can I then spray base, rather than going back to the paint store, getting high fill, spraying that and sanding again?

    2. If I slightly under-reduce the epoxy and/or base, will that help fill any tiny pinholes or scratches that I may have missed?

  10. #25
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    Default Hmmmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Thatís what I was thinking. Sand, recoat epoxy and go from there.

    I have 2 questions though:

    1. If I can get the epoxy to an acceptable level of finish, can I then spray base, rather than going back to the paint store, getting high fill, spraying that and sanding again?

    2. If I slightly under-reduce the epoxy and/or base, will that help fill any tiny pinholes or scratches that I may have missed?
    My take on your #2 above is not to attempt to reinvent the wheel with alterations of the intended purpose of such (or any) products as they can lead you to where you most likely don't want to be with negative results.

    Just too many variables in this 'art' without introducing more. Your base coat is intended solely to apply the chosen COLOR (and evenly) and the CLEAR on top will magnify that base. Altering the intended application of the base (see TDS) can give you an unexpected 'sucker punch'.

    We all wish you well and keep us posted!

    Henry

  11. #26
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    Sounds like exactly what the nason paint rep just told me over the phone.
    Thanks 👍

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Thatís what I was thinking. Sand, recoat epoxy and go from there.

    I have 2 questions though:

    1. If I can get the epoxy to an acceptable level of finish, can I then spray base, rather than going back to the paint store, getting high fill, spraying that and sanding again?

    2. If I slightly under-reduce the epoxy and/or base, will that help fill any tiny pinholes or scratches that I may have missed?
    henry set you straight i see. i never under-reduce, it's a really bad idea. pin holes and scratch marks are removed by sanding, or adding product and sanding.
    the only product i can think of that acts like epoxy and filler primer is optix. i haven't used it yet but there's another member here (@ronf) that has used it and says it's good stuff. i think len tried it too. it might be a good option for you.
    b marler

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    henry set you straight i see. i never under-reduce, it's a really bad idea. pin holes and scratch marks are removed by sanding, or adding product and sanding.
    the only product i can think of that acts like epoxy and filler primer is optix. i haven't used it yet but there's another member here (@ronf) that has used it and says it's good stuff. i think len tried it too. it might be a good option for you.
    I used Optex on one big job and found it to be great because it was a "direct-to-metal" filler primer so it's just a one step process BUT it's quite hard to sand. We ended up using a pneumatic board sander with 220 grit to level the Optex then re-primed with an easier to sand filler primer then blocked that with 400 wet.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I used Optex on one big job and found it to be great because it was a "direct-to-metal" filler primer so it's just a one step process BUT it's quite hard to sand. We ended up using a pneumatic board sander with 220 grit to level the Optex then re-primed with an easier to sand filler primer then blocked that with 400 wet.
    Ahh, good to know. Iíll probably stick to what I usually use then. I still think Iíll try it sometime though, on something small maybe. I wish it came in quart kits.
    b marler

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