TheCoatingStore.com

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29

Thread: F**k !!!!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default F**k !!!!

    So I Finally got to painting my hood today...

    it looks absolutely horrendous! The paint began to crinkle after I laid the second coat. Some type of chemical reaction apparently. I donít even wanna show pics Iím so embarrassed. I didnít know what to do so I figured... keep on spraying(donít do this). I laid the 3rd coat and it got much worse. Iím guessing sand back down to original primer, spray new 2k primer and give it another go. Iíve got a lot to learn apparently.
    Also I had some really cool lines show up from when I mocked up the graphics that I thought had been covered by the primer.

    Anyway here it is, feel free to rip me apart.

    68F29C30-925B-480F-AC3D-F30837831A71.jpg

    A2498E45-8CD2-40C3-A9F8-34125198FD28.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    19,535

    Default Wrong...!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    So I Finally got to painting my hood today...

    it looks absolutely horrendous! The paint began to crinkle after I laid the second coat. Some type of chemical reaction apparently. I donít even wanna show pics Iím so embarrassed. I didnít know what to do so I figured... keep on spraying(donít do this). I laid the 3rd coat and it got much worse. Iím guessing sand back down to original primer, spray new 2k primer and give it another go. Iíve got a lot to learn apparently.
    Also I had some really cool lines show up from when I mocked up the graphics that I thought had been covered by the primer.

    Anyway here it is, feel free to rip me apart.

    68F29C30-925B-480F-AC3D-F30837831A71.jpg

    A2498E45-8CD2-40C3-A9F8-34125198FD28.jpg
    SORRY!

    Let me add, this IS the place you DO want to share problems like that. No one judges anyone here so let's try and work this out. There is a good part to all this being, 'at least it's ONLY the hood - not an entire vehicle'!

    To start, what type of paint, base/clear, single stage Urethane, acrylic enamel?
    What was the paint painted over (primer-?) What touched the surface LAST - just prior to paint?

    How about the gun and what was IT used for prior to this paint? Is your AIRLINE clear & clean?

    Anyone spraying anything else in the area even from a buzz bomb can? RAGS - what could have been in a rag or towel you wiped the hood down with before paint?

    Hey, worst that happens is you sand the hood but not the whole vehicle and learn something not only helpful to you but other members here. Others will chime in to help out as well.

    SURPISE! You are NOT the only one this sort of thing happens to!

    Henry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    45,776

    Default

    Henry is right on in asking what were you painting on top of? Primer? Paint?

    What type of paint are you spraying? Lacquer? Enamel? Urethane? What brand?

    What environment and at what temperature? Garage? Cold? Warm?

    What spray gun type are you using?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    So I was spraying nason urethane base coat. I previously did a little body work on the hood, then sprayed sem high build primer. Sanded that down with 400. I cleaned it with water and a little dish soap, then degreaser, then tack cloth and then began spraying.
    Halfway through my first coat, my makeshift spray tent fell apart and collapsed on my hood leaving big gouges that I had to putty and prime again. (This was a few days ago) When I began spraying today, my hood was about half primer and half paint that I had sanded with 400 for my second attempt.

    I’m in south Florida so it was probably 80 degrees and sunny when I painted. I thought something was odd on the first Coat because it just didn’t seem to cover the way I expected it too. I was told nason paint doesn’t provide the best coverage so I figure the next coat would cover better.

    Honestly I don’t know how long I waited between coats. I just cleaned my gun, straightened up my area then went back at it. I use the spectrum black widow with a 1.7 nozzle (pretty sure that’s too big now that I’ve done some research). I had sprayed nason clear coat the day before with no issues, cleaned everything up well.

    As far as contaminants, yes I was painting outside but i had a nice clean area with nothing else going on that would’ve affected it.

    I felt like I sprayed the second and third coat too heavy, thinking I could cover it. Also I’m not even sure whether I was supposed to use a sealer after I laid the primer.

    My other issue was that my gun seemed to be spraying a fan that was heavy at the top and bottom but light through the center, leaving stripes that I kept going back to try and cover. I think I can name at least two things that I could’ve done a better job at but I’d love input from a real pro. I’ve sprayed more than a few pieces and never had this issue so I guess I just figured “point and shoot and hope you get lucky.

    I’d love to just sand it smooth and spray another coat but I get the feeling I have to sand the whole thing down and start fresh.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    The paint began to crinkle after I laid the second coat.
    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Honestly I donít know how long I waited between coats
    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    I use the spectrum black widow with a 1.7 nozzle
    All of this in my opinion created your problem.

    Your first coat and most definitely your second were sprayed much too heavy without adequate flash times.

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Some type of chemical reaction apparently.
    Hell yes, your second coat chemically melted way to deep into the first causing the wrinkling/lifting.

    You need to slow things way down and use a much smaller tip on that gun for shooting base. Itís not to be sprayed wet & heavy as you might like to spray your finish clear.

    Read the TDS for the paint youíre using and follow it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Iíd love input from a real pro
    Remember, this is just my opinion; I am not a professional painter, just a guy that has done some auto painting in the past as a hobby and really enjoy it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,819

    Default

    you're definitely going to have to strip everything odd of that and get back to a good foundation. you also may want to re-think the primer you're using. a one part primer isn't really a good foundation for something you want a lasting finish on. if you absolutely must use an aerosol primer at least get one that's a two part (catalyzed) primer. they come in a special can. i'd only consider using that sem product in limited instances.
    if you have a gun to shoot primer (i think i read you had one) get some 2k urethane primer. a hardened product won't lift when you put top coats on it.
    b marler

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    45,776

    Default

    If you've got to use aerosols Spray Max makes both 2K epoxy primer and 2K filler primer in aerosol cans.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    That’s the 2k primer the paint shop told me I should’ve used, however they don’t carry it in a spray can so I would need to order it. I don’t Necessarily have to use an aerosol, but I’ve never sprayed primer through any of my guns and I’m sure there is a learning curve. Plus I would need a different spray nozzle. At this point, though, I’m done thinking I can get away with doing things the way I think will work and am ready to listen to experience. I had been debating whether I needed a 2k primer or just sand down the bc to a smooth finish, fix any imperfections and apply a sealer From advance auto to lock everything in. Please tell me if this is not an option. I have a few more days till work gets busy again and would like to start moving on this as soon as possible. Thanks again for any and all input. You guys are awesome!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Thatís the 2k primer the paint shop told me I shouldíve used, however they donít carry it in a spray can so I would need to order it. I donít Necessarily have to use an aerosol, but Iíve never sprayed primer through any of my guns and Iím sure there is a learning curve. Plus I would need a different spray nozzle. At this point, though, Iím done thinking I can get away with doing things the way I think will work and am ready to listen to experience. I had been debating whether I needed a 2k primer or just sand down the bc to a smooth finish, fix any imperfections and apply a sealer From advance auto to lock everything in. Please tell me if this is not an option. I have a few more days till work gets busy again and would like to start moving on this as soon as possible. Thanks again for any and all input. You guys are awesome!
    i wouldn't trust any of the surface that had a lifting issue. it will certainly come back to bite you. you absolutely need a solid foundation for top coats. being in a hurry and trying to take shortcuts always and up costing more time and money in the end.
    that gun with the 1.7 nozzle is better suited for primer than base coat. and primer is about the easiest thing to shoot. better clean that gun and see if you can get a better pattern with it though. as you described it, i wouldn't use it for anything till you get it sorted.
    b marler

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    19,535

    Default HOLD ON!

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    Thatís the 2k primer the paint shop told me I shouldíve used, however they donít carry it in a spray can so I would need to order it. I donít Necessarily have to use an aerosol, but Iíve never sprayed primer through any of my guns and Iím sure there is a learning curve. Plus I would need a different spray nozzle. At this point, though, Iím done thinking I can get away with doing things the way I think will work and am ready to listen to experience. I had been debating whether I needed a 2k primer or just sand down the bc to a smooth finish, fix any imperfections and apply a sealer From advance auto to lock everything in. Please tell me if this is not an option. I have a few more days till work gets busy again and would like to start moving on this as soon as possible. Thanks again for any and all input. You guys are awesome!
    You could be headed for a serious problem!

    I'll speak for my state then you can check yours. You mentioned ADVANCE AUTO and in our state, ADVANCE, AUTOZONE and a couple more carry ONLY the DUPLICOLOR line of paint products. This will not be good for you because they ALL are of LACQUER BASE which is not compatible with the URETHANE you plan on topcoating with. Result will be your paint will PEEL OFF!

    Only a couple of NAPA stores in our state mix urethane paint & primers with their name on the label which is relabeled SHERWIN WILLIAMS products which would serve your purpose.

    Now, I'll stand corrected IF you have an ADVANCE that MIXES ACTUAL product and that, you need to check. Bottom line, IF you plan on using Urethane as a topcoat, DO NOT use a lacquer base product under it as part of your foundation. Keep us posted.

    Henry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    You could be headed for a serious problem!

    I'll speak for my state then you can check yours. You mentioned ADVANCE AUTO and in our state, ADVANCE, AUTOZONE and a couple more carry ONLY the DUPLICOLOR line of paint products. This will not be good for you because they ALL are of LACQUER BASE which is not compatible with the URETHANE you plan on topcoating with. Result will be your paint will PEEL OFF!

    Only a couple of NAPA stores in our state mix urethane paint & primers with their name on the label which is relabeled SHERWIN WILLIAMS products which would serve your purpose.

    Now, I'll stand corrected IF you have an ADVANCE that MIXES ACTUAL product and that, you need to check. Bottom line, IF you plan on using Urethane as a topcoat, DO NOT use a lacquer base product under it as part of your foundation. Keep us posted.

    Henry

    Wow...
    When I first had my hood primed and ready I had used sem high build, which was recommended by the paint shop to go well with the urethane topcoat and purchased together (however this does not provide a sealer). I had some issues I had to re-prime in some areas.. I was out of the sem high build so I purchased rustoleum from either Advance or OíReilly, canít really remember.
    Reading the specs, it says the rustoleum is meant to provide a base for most LAQUERS and ENAMELS!

    I had read at least a couple times what would happen if I put urethane on top of lacquer or enamel but I guess it was information overload, and apparently I like to find out things for myself lol.

    At this point Iím guessing I have many hours of clogged sandpaper in my future, then sealing with a 2k URETHANE primer, then sand and re-shoot.

    Please let me know if this is the correct way of going forward.

    Education is expensive I suppose.

    Thanks again.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    If this is correct, then my next question would be do I sand with 400 till I have a smooth base to work from and then 2k primer over that or do I take it down to original primer (or even down to metal) and star over completely?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    I just called axalta (nason) rep and he says to chemically strip everything and start again using nason 2k urethane (sad face).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    lower Michigan
    Posts
    31,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SFLAutoSurf View Post
    I just called axalta (nason) rep and he says to chemically strip everything and start again using nason 2k urethane (sad face).
    I agree 100% with the Nason rep. Chemically strip it back down to either bare metal or factory OEM paint. Then use 2K primer.



    Just a side note -- you are putting waaay too much emphasis on sealers. I haven't used a dedicated sealer for any paint work I have done for at least 20 years. If I want to do a seal coat on a full paintjob I will use lightly reduced epoxy primer as a sealer. I get the impression that you believe a sealer coat is going to seal everything under it so it can't react with anything you put over the sealer coat. NOT how it works. My experience is dedicated sealers are a waste of money and just add an unneeded step in the painting process.

    MOST of the auto body materials and automotive paint materials that are sold by car parts stores like Advance Auto, Autozone, O'Rielly's etc etc are NOT a good choice or even a reasonably choice for bodywork or painting. Buy your materials from a regular professional paint store and really stay clear of single stage primers (lacquer or enamel, like Rustoleum). If you want to paint your rusty beat up old lawn tractor then Rustoleum and Duplicolor paints are primers would be better than nothing if you keep your expectations really low.

    Words to live by in autobody and paint work. "You can have it cheap OR you can have it good, but you can never have both cheap and good."

    Even I'm shocked at how high the paint materials cost right now.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    I agree 100% with the Nason rep. Chemically strip it back down to either bare metal or factory OEM paint. Then use 2K primer.



    Just a side note -- you are putting waaay too much emphasis on sealers...
    Iím sure your right, I just donít know enough to know what I donít know. Iíve read everywhere I can think of to get a straight answer to what actually NEEDS to be done to have a viable surface to work on but it seems like a straight answer doesnít exist. And the couple things I thought I was certain about have failed me so far.

    For instance the rep says to go down to bare metal..
    Experienced painters have told me not to do that since the truck has only been painted once, in a professional environment by professional painters (or machines maybe, I dunno) and hasnít been messed with until now. I donít see how my untrained ass is gonna do a better job priming and coating the truck than Toyota did.

    Iíve done very little body work on this thing, so I was under the impression I could just hit those areas with 2k and go to town. I didnít know what a sealer was until maybe a week ago, lol.

    With the hood, I know for a fact I sprayed entirely too heavy, probably didnít time my coats well enough and then went back immediately, trying to cover the areas that hadnít received proper coverage due to the paint appearing to be striped.. Either the nozzle was clogged or my pressure was too high or both. Iím not sure if thatís why the paint crinkled or if it was due to the rustoleum but I know that if I strip it down to factory base or even primer, both of those materials will be gone and Iíll be back to oem, mostly untouched materials.

    Then again, like I said earlier every time I think I know what Iím doing with this thing, reality steps in and reminds me that reading and watching YouTube videos does not equal knowledge.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •