TheCoatingStore.com

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40

Thread: 3M 05954 Super Duty Rubbing Compound

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default 3M 05954 Super Duty Rubbing Compound

    Needing a hard cutting CC compound that replicates 1500g wet, anybody used either the 3M 05954 Super Duty Rubbing Compound or the Meguiar's M10532 Ultra-Cut? results?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,135

    Default

    I use 3M Clear Coat sanding discs on my AirVantage sander. I have a hose running just a small stream of water on the panel. They cut fast and last a long time. I use an interface pad on curved surfaces and remove it for flat areas. Have a rubber squeegee near by and check often. I’ve had bad luck with the course rubbing compound and buffer. It cuts too fast and I have very little control.

    Bob K

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,711

    Default

    i'm with bob k on this one. i stopped using coarse compound when i found the finishing film and trizact for the sander. i used to use this stuff i got from the guy that supplied for detail shops. wish i could remember what it was. it was exactly what you're talking about, just like sandpaper. you could see primer in the blink of an eye.
    i'd only use something like that on big open spaces. i bet the 3m will do that.
    b marler

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    lower Michigan
    Posts
    30,621

    Default

    I've been using 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound, 05955 rubbing compound for decades and I have found nothing that works as well as it does. I painted a hood on one of my John Deere garden tractors about a month ago with basecoat/clearcoat and final sanded it with 1500. The purple Mystic Cut was taking way too long so I switched to 3-M Super Duty and I had the hood done in 5 minutes. That compound IS coarse so it has to be finished off with a finer compound like Transtar's Tri-Cut compound.

    Another trick using 3-M Super Duty is when you have all the sanding marks buffed out then clean the buffing pad with an air nozzle/air gun to clean most of the compound out of the pad then lightly spray some water on the pad or the panel being buffed and wheel the panel with an RPM of around 1500 revolutions. That will bring up the shine quite a bit. Then finish it off with a different polishing pad and a finer polishing compound.

    If your clearcoat is thin then you could rub through with the 3-M Super Duty but then if the clearcoat is thin and you have sand scratches that aren't coming out then you're going to rub through regardless of what you wheel it out with.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Jobber dropped off the 3M 05954 heavy cutting compound and I "think" it did what I needed. A little background on repair; Some of you know I am doing a 36' chevy coupe in Ford Ruby Red tri coat and am in the process of learning how to repair a dark colored tri coat shot without re-shooting an entire car or panel, like say a few SMALL rock chips, etc.. I am still in the learning process for repairing and blending out tri coat repairs . On one of my front fenders I had a few vapor pops that were close together (probably rushed the mid and cc). After trying the usual repair methods for a vapor pop (small detail brush, tooth pic, etc.) and not liking the results I sanded a large portion of the fender down to 1000g wet, re-shot bc onto the small vapor pop area, followed by mid and cc where spray out area is expanded and blended as I went. Finished with a coat of pure reducer over entire area too help blend. After hand blocking repair with 1500g wet followed by trizact 1500 discs wet (effectively 2000 by hand blocking), trizact 3000 and 5000 wet with an inter face pad I had a very distinct line between the new and old cc repair in just one area (weird). I tried going back over this line with 1500 Trizact discs wet and it improved “somewhat”. Every time I tried to polish out that area you could see a distinct color variation line. My thinking is this was from the mid coat that carries base red pigment and pearl and darkened the area. I tried blending this area with various wool and foam pads with both 3M 05974 and Wizards compound. Again, some improvement but not enough. Now, after using the 3M 05954 heavy compound (literally tried to heat and blend the cc) and finishing with 3M 06068 Ultrafine Machine polish it is almost all gone. My only worry is the 3M Ultrafine Machine polish is actually hiding the line and may return. I know this is one long ass post but think it was needed when asking for advice. Anything I could have done different? Know of a better method to blend a dark metallic red tri coat repair?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    45,326

    Default

    Spot repairs on a tri-coat is a real challenge. My approach would be to fill any divots with clear on a dabber, allow it to harden then level it before the blend attempt.

    To blend I would probably do the same process that you did. I'd blow a thinned base coat over the spot then a thinned mid-coat extending the spot after thinning the mid again then clear. All of this would probably make a one inch problem into a one foot repair. Be sure to use a gun that atomizes REAL WELL and extend all the stages with thinned paint and finalize the clear top coat using only reducer to melt in the edge of the repair.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Spot repairs on a tri-coat is a real challenge. My approach would be to fill any divots with clear on a dabber, allow it to harden then level it before the blend attempt.

    To blend I would probably do the same process that you did. I'd blow a thinned base coat over the spot then a thinned mid-coat extending the spot after thinning the mid again then clear. All of this would probably make a one inch problem into a one foot repair. Be sure to use a gun that atomizes REAL WELL and extend all the stages with thinned paint and finalize the clear top coat using only reducer to melt in the edge of the repair.
    This is exactly how I did this tri coat repair with the exception of over reducing the repair shot products, I shot them to TDS. However, I did shoot a final pure reducer over the panel for blend. Now I'm thinking you really hit onto something with the over reduced repair coatings. This makes a lot of sense as it is only the cut in outlines (no tape) that are not melding together! I used my mini SRI for base with a 1.2, shot the mid and cc with my Sagola 4600 using the 1.2xl tip (smallest tip I have) using CC cap. The repair area was probably closer to 18" x 18" when I first scratched the surface with 1000g wet. I knew ahead of time this was going to be a tough cut in for the best scenario, but there has to be a way to do this, challenging. While it is coming together I think your response of over reducing the repair products would have given me a big one up.

    Len, on your dabber suggestion, on my initial repair attempt I did try to smooth out with the fiberglass nib pen I get from you (really like that pen for nibs) followed by using a true spot dauber with 600g for teeth. I then used CC that was tinted with 2-3 drops of base, over reduced and hardner to give it a color match. I have used this method for decades with great results. However, after letting it sit for 24 hrs it just would not stay. Panel is actually finished out so smooth and straight it makes it hard to do all the normal tricks of the trade. When this repair failed I went to the above repair method.
    Last edited by Ronf; 03-09-2021 at 07:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Hi Ronf,

    The last picture looks really good.

    Just curious though, why are you not clear coating the entire fender?

    Looks to me as though you are ever so slowly eroding away the feather edge of the clear as you continue to sand, buff & polish.

    I would think over time this feathered in edge will come back and haunt you by slowly lifting as it is microscopically thin.

    I must say, in that last picture the color blend looks very good, so I think if you were to clear the entire fender the repair won’t show nearly as much and be 100% more durable.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    Hi Ronf,

    The last picture looks really good.

    Just curious though, why are you not clear coating the entire fender?

    Looks to me as though you are ever so slowly eroding away the feather edge of the clear as you continue to sand, buff & polish.

    I would think over time this feathered in edge will come back and haunt you by slowly lifting as it is microscopically thin.

    I must say, in that last picture the color blend looks very good, so I think if you were to clear the entire fender the repair won’t show nearly as much and be 100% more durable.
    S-C,

    Normally I would have shot the entire fender with clear on this small vapor pop repair area. However I don't have enough experience on tri coat repair and am looking to learn how to do future repairs once the vehicle is assembled. For instance, if I get a small sail panel or rear trunk pan ding I want to be able to make a repair, or at least a good attempt, without re-clearing half the car as to keep up the finished appearance. I've shot maybe 5 or 6 tri coat repairs for my hot rod buddies in which I cleared the entire panel off the car and have shot a few full tri coat spray outs. All of these projects came out fine. The initial spray for this fender was 3 bc's, 2 mid coats and 4 coats of clear (3 of which were heavy coats with a 1.3 Sata 4000b rp that is effectively a 1.5). On the repair, I replicated the spray out after extending each product a little further each time using my Sagola 4600 with a 1.2xl tip and a 1.3xl tip for clear. In other words there is loads of clear on this repair and I am nowhere near breaking through.

    What I should have also mentioned is all the original panels were shot in PPG DCU2021 and the repair was shot with PPG DC3000. This was done to replicate a real world repair as the DC3000 has an extremely fast flash of under 5 minutes and it is my go to clear for repair panels. I've done countless SS and bc/cc repairs over the years but tri coat is a new animal for me and I believe it's the inter coat that really makes this tough. Havbing the fender off the car at this time made it the perfect subject for this learning process.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,711

    Default

    just wondering, is the line we're seeing the edge of the top clear coat? it seems like it must be if the fine polish is hiding it. i was wondering if the fine polish is kind of like a glaze where it has oils or resins in it that will wear off fairly quickly in the sun and that line will reappear.
    the problem from my perspective seems more like a clear coat blend issue than a problem with the base/mid coat blend. you and len always mention to just use straight reducer to melt in the edge of the repair. i always use that universal blending solvent. might be a bit hotter? dx840 i think?
    really though, my experience blending is fairly limited but i've had good results doing it.
    when you first brought up this correction i was skeptical it would come out good enough for your standards, but it really looks good and i'm happy to be learning from your experience. the color match seems spot on.
    b marler

  11. #11

    Default

    You should always wash the area with soap and water after the final
    buff, it's amazing what the glaze in compounds can hide.
    Then you can be more comfortable how it will look later on down the road.
    Even then, sometimes a re polish is needed.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    just wondering, is the line we're seeing the edge of the top clear coat? it seems like it must be if the fine polish is hiding it. i was wondering if the fine polish is kind of like a glaze where it has oils or resins in it that will wear off fairly quickly in the sun and that line will reappear.
    the problem from my perspective seems more like a clear coat blend issue than a problem with the base/mid coat blend. you and len always mention to just use straight reducer to melt in the edge of the repair. i always use that universal blending solvent. might be a bit hotter? dx840 i think?
    really though, my experience blending is fairly limited but i've had good results doing it.
    when you first brought up this correction i was skeptical it would come out good enough for your standards, but it really looks good and i'm happy to be learning from your experience. the color match seems spot on.
    Marler,

    "just wondering, is the line we're seeing the edge of the top clear coat?" Too be honest I don't know if it's hidden within the polish or not. I used a variety of methods and materials to try and blend this out. Before polishing out I tried compounding with a combination of wool pads, 8" red, black and orange foam pads, along with 4 different 3M compounds and wizards. From the beginning I was willing to sacrifice the paint on this fender and do it over if I can achieve my goal of learning hands on tri coat repair. Too many that may sound crazy but I need this experience/knowledge for down the road. If you look at the second pic where I hand blocked to 1500 wet, 1500 wet trizact disc and finished up with 3000 and 5000 trizact discs (all disc with inner face pad), I could see early this was going to happen. I did this in order to help me too understand what was occurring on the panel and where I need to go from here. Now look at the third pic, it should have stated "after compounding" not "polishing". I literally attempted to run the compound a bit dry in order to heat the CC for blending. For the most part and too my surprise it actually worked with the exception of the area marked "distinct line" in the pic. At this point I stopped and asked members here if they had ever used the 3M 05954 heavy compound. Since I knew I had loads of cc on the panel I would try a heavier compound to heat and blend the last panel line remaining in the CC. When my jobber dropped off the 3M 05954 heavy compound it reminded me of the old sandy feeling paste compound we used 40 years ago (and had the same smell, gotta love that old smell!). I used this compound to "burn" in that last line on the top of fender, 4th pic and the line disappeared. I finished up this repair area with the 3M 06068 Ultrafine Machine Polish. So, your question is spot on in asking "am I now hiding a problem within the polish", I don't know but I hope not. What I can't show here is all the different techniques I used to speed up or slow down rotary buffer, feathering edges, etc., you know the drill I'm referring to. So, after another long ass post in which I apologize for, I am open to suggestions from members. Please keep my goal of tri coat repair in mind when giving advice. Len, Phil, S-C and jmarler have always gave me great advice and I appreciate each of you for taking your time to help.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    45,326

    Default

    I'm assuming that the surface that was blended was sanded well beyond the blend area.

    If the clear is breaking back then it was either not over-reduced for the blending or it was sanded and polished too far into the repair.

    To me the whole trick to getting a good blend is to hide the transition by the over-reduction of all the layers and in many cases we will mix a small amount of color in the clear, spray and blend the tinted clear then spray straight clear then over-reduce it and extend the spot then spray straight reducer on the blend.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    looking to learn how to do future repairs once the vehicle is assembled
    Oh… I get it, a learning session, kidding me, your the master...

    Well, I hate to say, but I believe that feathered edge is and always will be the failure point of the repair. I personally would not do that, that's for the collision guys, you know, quick & dirty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post

    the DC3000 has an extremely fast flash of under 5 minutes
    I’m wondering if this is making it more difficult to blend / hide the feather edge?

    By this I mean the DC3000 has such a fast flash & dry time that it doesn’t stay wet long enough to melt into the existing paint if at all.

    The key is to soften the existing paint slightly, so try the opposite of what you are doing by using slow reducers & activators so the finish clear has a chance to stay wet longer and melt in.

    Just a thought… might be worth a try

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I'm assuming that the surface that was blended was sanded well beyond the blend area.

    If the clear is breaking back then it was either not over-reduced for the blending or it was sanded and polished too far into the repair.

    To me the whole trick to getting a good blend is to hide the transition by the over-reduction of all the layers and in many cases we will mix a small amount of color in the clear, spray and blend the tinted clear then spray straight clear then over-reduce it and extend the spot then spray straight reducer on the blend.
    Len

    "I'm assuming that the surface that was blended was sanded well beyond the blend area." Yes, well beyond the repair area.

    The blend was not over reduced and I now know this played into the problem. I do all my 2 stage repairs in the over reduced manner. Not sure what I was thinking on this 3 stage, best I can guess at is the pigmented and pearl carrying inner coat through me off from my normal 2 stage repair as I was intimidated by this tri coat repair.
    Last edited by Ronf; 03-10-2021 at 04:12 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •