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Thread: Tri Coat repair

  1. #1
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    Default Tri Coat repair

    I recently painted a 30's chevy 4 part folding hood in Ford Ruby Red METALLIC TRI COAT. Unfortunately I hose dragged over one of the panel edges after applying the 2nd of intended 3 coats of clear. Panel did not get the 3rd coat of clear as I caught this drag before last coat of clear was shot.

    As I have only shot a few tri coat jobs, both full panel repair or full paint jobs and have never done a tri coat repair of this nature I am unsure as how to proceed. When the hose drag occurred it lifted both coats of clear. During color sanding I took the surface down with 1000g wet to eliminate the surface build at edge where the drag occurred followed by 1500g wet. As pics show I broke through all the way to the primer coat that extends just beyond the edges. I'm thinking I need to strip the entire panel and start over as I can't image there is a way to blend the mid coat into panel of this repair without having a halo. Your suggestions? Is there a chance I can feather shoot the base and mid coat into this repair and slam on a few more coats of clear? As these panels received a final base drop coat application to disperse the metallic is there a chance I could do several feathered in drop coats (shooting off panel and feather into repair) of base coat only, skip the mid coat and apply several coats of clear over repair?
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  2. #2
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    As long at the film build isn't too heavy you could just repair the surface imperfections then shoot the entire panel again on top of the existing finish. However if you think you have too much material on the surface it may pay to remove some or all of the existing coatings before you re-coat. I probably wouldn't try to blend the tri coat because it may show in the finished product.

    If that happened here I would probably block sand using 400 or 600 grit wet paper to remove some of the film build then re-shoot the panel.

  3. #3
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    Hi Ronf,

    Sorry to hear about what happened here.

    I am by no means a pro painter, this type work was just a hobby for me and that was many years ago.

    When I look at your pics, my brain wants to analyze and come up with a reasonable remedy.

    First off, I don’t see any reason to “strip the entire panel and start over.”

    Yeah, you’re going to have more build up, but to strip back to metal and start over when you already have a great foundation seems overkill to me.

    I personally would not be overly concerned with the extra coats. As Len suggests, sand & and redo in its entirety. After all, many custom over the top paint jobs with extensive artwork have an abundance of film buildup, even more than what you would end up with.

    Just my 2 pennies

  4. #4
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    Default Thank you Len

    Thanks Len,

    When you stated "I probably wouldn't try to blend the tri coat because it may show in the finished product", this was my biggest concern. The panel in question just happens to be one of the top panels of the 4 part folding hood (just my luck). I am going to experiment with a "feather in" repair using my SRI mini, shooting with a narrowed pattern, product flow reduced and up the pressure a bit as to walk this into the panels edge working from the outside and finish up with 1 full inter-coat (Sagola 4600 w/1.2xl) lightly applied and 2 additional coats of heavy clear with the Sagola 4600 (1.3xl). I don't expect this to work, however I need to extend my understanding of tri coat panel repair for future use . This will probably be a disaster but if I can gain an understanding of tri coat paint repair a little better then nothing is lost and I can simply strip the panel and start over.

  5. #5
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    Since you will be doing an experimental blend, I would also experiment with applying a “wet bed” just prior to the "feather in" blending. This would aid with the feather in dry edge thus helping conceal the dreaded halo effect.

    Might be worth a try

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Thanks Len,

    When you stated "I probably wouldn't try to blend the tri coat because it may show in the finished product", this was my biggest concern. The panel in question just happens to be one of the top panels of the 4 part folding hood (just my luck). I am going to experiment with a "feather in" repair using my SRI mini, shooting with a narrowed pattern, product flow reduced and up the pressure a bit as to walk this into the panels edge working from the outside and finish up with 1 full inter-coat (Sagola 4600 w/1.2xl) lightly applied and 2 additional coats of heavy clear with the Sagola 4600 (1.3xl). I don't expect this to work, however I need to extend my understanding of tri coat panel repair for future use . This will probably be a disaster but if I can gain an understanding of tri coat paint repair a little better then nothing is lost and I can simply strip the panel and start over.
    In order to judge the quality of the repair be sure to take it outside in the sunlight. Let us know what you did and how it turned out.

  7. #7
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    Ford Ruby Red tri stage is a bitch to blend. I'll let it go at that.

  8. #8
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    i expect the chance of an acceptable repair to be close to zero. my standards (and yours) are pretty high though, and a bodyshop doing insurance work would probably see it differently.
    i think it's great that you are going to give it a try though, actual experience is the best teacher and if you want to be able to repair that tri coat the only way is to learn how right? most anything can be learned with enough experience, but cost usually keeps us from experimenting.
    looking forward to seeing the result.
    b marler

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    Ford Ruby Red tri stage is a bitch to blend. I'll let it go at that.

    Well said Phil. I followed most of PPG's TDS TBRR3, that uses a Limited Use Toner” (LUT) for this shot, with a few variants to make the fleck and pearl really pop all the while avoiding flop (not a fan of flop for a build of this nature). Ford used several different variations of its Ruby Red as all were not a tri coat. However, the variant I used makes blending repairs of this type a bit more difficult, especially when you consider I have zero knowledge on a repair of this nature when dealing with tri coats. I've shot several full panels and a few full paint jobs in tri coat to factory TDS specs with absolutely no problems (actually surprised they came out so well with my limited knowledge in 3 stage). This has left me with a basic knowledge of tri coat. My goal is too be able to repair a deep door, fender or sail panel ding down the road without having to shoot an entire panel or car. None of my personal builds are ever trailer queens which makes them subject to touch up. Today I will be attempting this repair, should be an interesting day.
    Last edited by Ronf; 01-05-2021 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #10
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    Good Luck Ronf

    Looking forward to the results

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    i expect the chance of an acceptable repair to be close to zero. my standards (and yours) are pretty high though, and a bodyshop doing insurance work would probably see it differently.
    i think it's great that you are going to give it a try though, actual experience is the best teacher and if you want to be able to repair that tri coat the only way is to learn how right? most anything can be learned with enough experience, but cost usually keeps us from experimenting.
    looking forward to seeing the result.
    I absolutely agree, not expecting much but who knows. Just want to learn something about these 3 stage repairs. It was my intent to shoot this repair today but didn't happen as a bit more prep needs to take place and I want to give it the proper attention needed . I will have it done before end of week as it's time to move on with this build. As always thank you for your input, always glad too hear from you.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    Good Luck Ronf

    Looking forward to the results
    Thanks S-C,

    Hopefully I can gain a bit more knowledge on tri coat repairs for futures projects. Was hoping to shoot this today but panel needs a bit more prep work prior to shooting and I want to include a few more incidental trim parts after booth is set up, for certain before end of week. The Sagola 4600 Xtreme was very instrumental in these parts coming out so nice. You and the other group members who purchased this gun have yourselves one sweet gun (at an unbelievable price thanks too Len, see henry I remembered!). I guarantee you will not be disappointed with it's application, set up and finishing results. As always shoot a few practice panels before hitting the parts that matter. I'm still trying to get a handle on all the tip sizes (I ordered extra tips for this tri coat shot) vs products shot for various applications in custom painting. Originally I held off purchasing this gun as there was not a Sagola adapter made for my 3M PPS paint system as well as the Master Paint System MPS mini 6 oz. cups I use for touch ups and door jambs. Through Len I was also able to obtain extra tip sizes and the #32 adapter which fits both of these systems. There is a big advantage in having the various tip sizes on hand for different products and projects.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    I absolutely agree, not expecting much but who knows. Just want to learn something about these 3 stage repairs. It was my intent to shoot this repair today but didn't happen as a bit more prep needs to take place and I want to give it the proper attention needed . I will have it done before end of week as it's time to move on with this build. As always thank you for your input, always glad too hear from you.
    just to be clear, i wasn't discounting your ability. i fully believe you can nail this type of repair once you do a few of them. i only thought that getting it perfect the first time out would be very difficult. especially as it's one of a multi panel assembly and color variation will be easier to detect.
    but it seems like you're giving it the proper attention it needs so fingers crossed!
    b marler

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    In order to judge the quality of the repair be sure to take it outside in the sunlight. Let us know what you did and how it turned out.
    Repair was finished last night and I couldn't be happier with repair. I sanded the entire panel to 1000g wet and shot the repair area with the 1.2xl tip. On the bc I simply "flicked" the Sagola onto the panel from outside and up off the panel which dusted the area about 4-5 inches in with 3 coats. I turned the fluid level down to a single full turn out and used about a 3/4 pattern. On the mid coat I over reduced by 20 percent and applied it the same way as bc but extended it to about a foot inside the panel. Finished up with 3 full coats of wet on wet clear using my Sata 4000 b rp. This morning I took both top panels of the hood and sat them side by side in the sun, looked perfect, what a relief! During the repair I checked the panel after each coat with my sun gun so I had a pretty good idea there wasn't a problem, but you never really know until both panels were in the sun for a match. These are progressive pics of repair, last pic shows results after the first of 3 cc shots
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    just to be clear, i wasn't discounting your ability. i fully believe you can nail this type of repair once you do a few of them. i only thought that getting it perfect the first time out would be very difficult. especially as it's one of a multi panel assembly and color variation will be easier to detect.
    but it seems like you're giving it the proper attention it needs so fingers crossed!
    I absolutely understand and knew exactly what you meant! I thought this would be just a training session in tri coat repair with a lot of sanding and re-coating afterwards, damn I am happy this turned out. Here is final pic with all clear coats applied. Won't take much color sanding as it really laid flat, might even try and start with 2000g wet but I'm sure it will need the 1500.
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    • File Type: jpg C.jpg (94.2 KB, 41 views)
    • File Type: jpg A.jpg (94.2 KB, 41 views)
    • File Type: jpg B.jpg (100.8 KB, 42 views)

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