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Thread: 4600 Sagola Xtreme

  1. #16
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    Nov 2013
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    Default

    i love the rebar stands. i keep rebar around too for the same purpose, it's cheap and fast to fab up. and if you need to lay something flat it only makes point contact so less paint transfer or contamination. for the industrial stuff i paint i'll get several sessions out of it before i toss it into the recycle bin.
    b marler

  2. #17
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    Sep 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    I build my own adjustable fender stands from 1/2" and 3/8" rebar. I can build a set of these fender stands in about an hour for about 8 or 9 dollars and simply cut them up and throw away when I'm finished (if anybody wants them when I'm done you are welcome to have them as I throw them away after each build).
    Great job on the custom stands!

    Lolů funny you mentioned the rebar thing. I too use it occasionally to make things. In fact, I just used some last week welding some leg extensions to my Christmas tree stand. The stand itself is also made of rebar.

    Another thing I use sometimes to fab things up is old bed frames. I can get them for nothing, so I use them for misc projects too.

    Those pictures of your work look nice!

  3. #18
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    Default Yes I am

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I see you're getting CLOSER!

    Henry
    Nothing ever gets by henry! yep getting closer one day at a time.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Unfortunately the 33' Confederate coupe paint job had too be delayed due to drivetrain problems. So I dug some parts out of storage for another build and will be shooting them tonight. This is another fat fender build in which I'll be shooting all the fenders, running boards and the 4 part hood in a tri-coat. I spend a couple hours building fender stands which are now ready to go. I build my own adjustable fender stands from 1/2" and 3/8" rebar. I can build a set of these fender stands in about an hour for about 8 or 9 dollars and simply cut them up and throw away when I'm finished (if anybody wants them when I'm done you are welcome to have them as I throw them away after each build).

    As this is going to be my first shot with the Sagola 4600 it would be nice to know what too expect for the CC. I have 2 urethane caps (hvlp and clear) and 3 tip sizes, 1.2xl, 1.3 and 1.3xl. My plan is to shoot all products utilizing the clear cap only. I am most concerned with the CC set up. I am used to shooting CC with my Sata 4000 rp 1.3, a fast gun and it lays like glass (really fast gun). As I want to give this Sagola a good comparison, what tip size would you recommend for a HS clear? My thinking is the 1.3, even though I'm thinking it would be a slower shot when compared to the Sata 4000 rp (really hoses the clear on), slower is just fine as long as I can get it too lay glass. Here is a list of products I'll be shooting with:

    Sealer: PPG DAS3025 and DAS3027 mixed for a gray scale of G6
    BC: PPG Deltron DBC2000
    Mid coat: PPG DBC500 pearl and pigment
    CC: PPG DCU2021

    Finally got around to shooting a tri coat on the peripheral parts for my 36' chevy coupe project (see previous post) using the Sagola 4600 Xtreme. 2 coats of base were shot using a standard application with 1.3 tip and CC cap, followed by a drop coat on the base to make sure fleck was evenly dispersed. 2 mid coats of pigmented cc w/pearl was shot using the 1.2xl tip and finally 3 heavy coats of clear was shot. On the cc I started with the 1.3 tip/clear cap and quickly switch to the 1.3xl tip (1.3 just too slow for my style of clear as I like slamming the clear on). In short this is now my new go to gun for base and for a tri coat mid shot (1.2xl w/cc cap). For clears I'll stay with my Sata 4000b rp as I feel like it atomizes HS clear much better and has a larger fan pattern which fits my style of shooting clear. This is not too say your Sagola 4600 will not lay a great professional CC finish, as it absolutely will. I strive to bury my 2 and 3 stage paint projects in clear to the point it's absolutely as flat as possible and requires very little color sanding and this is where I think my Sata 4000b rp wins out. However, Sata also comes with a premium price tag and the Sagola can produce the same results after a bit more color sanding.

    For those of you who purchased this gun, you got one sweet deal on a very high end profession gun and you won't be disappointed with the results it is capable of. It can lay material really flat, easy to adjust (even on the fly), easy to set up and has an extremely nice pattern. In a previous thread, when referring to the 4600 Sagola, a member stated you feel in control of the gun as opposed to the gun controlling you, this is an absolute perfect analogy of this gun.

    In a previous post on this thread I showed the parts to be finished. Below pics are the exact same parts after shooting all finishing coats using just the Sagola 4600. I have included a pic of a front fender to give you an idea of the project size. All 4 fenders, both running boards, 4 part folding hood and engine splash pans were completed in a Ford Ruby Red tri coat paint.
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    • File Type: jpg 3.jpg (91.6 KB, 60 views)

  5. #20
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    Nov 2013
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    olympia,wa
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    looking good buddy, like that color. those fenders are huge aren't they?
    b marler

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    19,136

    Default Nice!!!

    Finally, eh boss? Happy for you to be able to pull that trigger - FIANALLY!!!

    Color is really nice. Looks like either FORD 'Toreador' or MOPAR 'Inferno Red pear coat metallic, regardless, looks super!

    Henry

  7. #22
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    Sep 2020
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    164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    2 mid coats of pigmented cc w/pearl was shot using the 1.2xl tip and finally 3 heavy coats of clear was shot.
    Very nice Ronf, I too like the color.

    Question, on your mid coats were you using a base clear, or the same clear as your finish top coat clear?
    If your inter-coat was base clear, did you put hardener/activator in it?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    Very nice Ronf, I too like the color.

    Question, on your mid coats were you using a base clear, or the same clear as your finish top coat clear?
    If your inter-coat was base clear, did you put hardener/activator in it?
    Yeah, I was wondering too. Sounded like you put on a dropout(clear base coat) between your base coat color and your clercoat? I've head of painters who on there last coat of metallic base coat spray on a little dry to get the metallic to pop better but I never heard a of a dropout (clear base coat) put on between base and clear. Curious and interested in your painting process. Panels look great by the way.
    dlm ny country

  9. #24
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    Nov 2005
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    19,136

    Default Yes sir...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Nothing ever gets by henry! yep getting closer one day at a time.
    There are certain people and projects worth following ALL THE WAY.

    (One of those is YOU!!!)

    I find it funny that this is not only some internet site but a genuine "FAMILY" who actually CARES for one another! And ALL that prep work, all those tons of countless hours, lots of money spent, for the sake of PULLING THE TRIGGER! That's what you call HUGE! Good luck going forward.

    (Make me think of "kevin in Ohio" (sort of a 'Mascot' here!)

    Henry

  10. #25
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    Nov 2005
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    45,318

    Default

    Lookin good Ron. What type of primer are you painting over?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
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    118

    Default

    Looks great ronf. Your painting space, is it a garage? Do you have a ventilation system? Hoping to paint mine next year, will 2021-2022.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  12. #27
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    Dec 2015
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    Default bmarler

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    looking good buddy, like that color. those fenders are huge aren't they?
    Thanks Marler! Yes, fenders are huge. I included that pic to give an idea of just how large these 30's fenders can be. Damn, they can be difficult to color sand...time to get into my mojo zone

  13. #28
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    Dec 2015
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    Default Paint ventilation

    Quote Originally Posted by Marten View Post
    Looks great ronf. Your painting space, is it a garage? Do you have a ventilation system? Hoping to paint mine next year, will 2021-2022.
    Not a garage. I have a shop equivalent to a 4+ car garage and a paint booth. The area you see these parts in I mainly use for both wet and dry sanding but from time to time I will also use it for painting small parts as it has a "mild" PPV system to keep laden particulates too a minimum. I mostly do full restorations for my own projects, painting is but one aspect of the build for me. I always say, "I am not a professional" just an extreme enthusiast who has been doing this for quite some time. I do a lot of work for my fellow classic car crazies (mainly 30's model hot rods), just a great group of friends who are as dedicated to building and driving unique rides as I am.

    On your filtering and ventilation, I have experience in PPV design and would be glad to help whenever you get to that stage. If your goal is to paint an entire car in your home garage my advice would be to study as much PPV system design material as possible (I am not a fan of negative systems, no pun intended) in advance of your project and prepare your environment. It is absolutely possible to paint a car in a standard 2 car garage but you need to be prepare for obstacles such as; limited floor space, not allowing paint particles to drift onto your neighbors homes and cars (filtering), visibility during application of project (ventilation) and foremost your health and safety. Other things to consider; single stage vs 2-3 stage paint application, body off application, your spray equipment, i.e. rp vs hvlp and HS clear vs low viscosity , etc..
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  14. #29
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    Dec 2015
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    Default DP50LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Lookin good Ron. What type of primer are you painting over?
    Len,

    These parts were well seasoned and stored for months in epoxy primer (PPG DP50LF) after all the body filler, HB primer, guide coat, etc was applied and sanded to absolute dead straight. I would guess at least a dozen body fitment test were performed during the SM stage and body filler application prior to storing these parts. A few days prior to my final tri-coat application I block sanded out the epoxy to 600g wet. This was followed by PPG V-seal, bc, mid coat and cc. If you remember I contacted you when I ran into problems while shooting the over reduced PPG V-seal with my new Sagola using the 1.3xl tip in which I over reduced the sealer. I found out the problem was with the V-seal not with the gun. Problem just happened to occur with my first time behind the new Sagola 4600, just my luck! All turned out fine in the end, couldn't be happier with this guns performance!

  15. #30
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    Dec 2015
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S-C View Post
    Very nice Ronf, I too like the color.

    Question, on your mid coats were you using a base clear, or the same clear as your finish top coat clear?
    If your inter-coat was base clear, did you put hardener/activator in it?
    S-C,

    I applied 2 coats of metallic base using the 1.3 tip at about 5-6" DTP, followed by a final bc drop (fast and furious, again w/1.3 tip) at about 8-10" from surface to evenly disperse the metallic over the panels. Drop coat helps ensure I don't leave any tiger stripping on the panel I might miss in the booth as well as makes the metallic evenly dispersed and pop. This was followed by 2 medium coat applications of inter coat using PPG DBC500 cut in clear which is nothing more than a base pigmented, non-metallic, cc with pearl mixed in using a 1.2xl tip (1.3 tip would have been just fine). Finally, 3 coats of PPG DCU 2021 cc was applied using the 1.3xl tip and clear cap.

    I always use hardner in all materials when shooting a tri coat. I mix 5% RTS catalyst for base and mid coats and finish with cc mixed at the recommended ratio according to the TDS. While the hardner is not required for base and mid coat, I prefer to use it.

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