TheCoatingStore.com

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: next steps

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
    Posts
    50

    Default next steps

    Same title new questions. I have finished welding in this patch panel. It will need some filler. I am wondering what to do first. Spray the epoxy primer then filler or filler then epoxy primer? Is there anything else I should do? One guy I have talked to says when using the filler, just go over the area you need to. Another guys wants me to smear it on about 1/8" thick from bottom to about 1 1/2 feet above the weld line. Then sand it down. What is the best way to do this. I also have other areas I am working on so will follow the same steps.
    20201012_193626.jpg
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    42,791

    Default

    Epoxy primer is a toss up, we never use it but some people do. We usually put a coat of fiberglass filler on first because it more resistant to any moisture that can get through the seam, after the fiberglass we use standard Bondo-type filler to tweak the leveling. If you can get to the other side be sure to seal the seam with a "good" seam sealer.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    16,031

    Default Question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marten View Post
    Same title new questions. I have finished welding in this patch panel. It will need some filler. I am wondering what to do first. Spray the epoxy primer then filler or filler then epoxy primer? Is there anything else I should do? One guy I have talked to says when using the filler, just go over the area you need to. Another guys wants me to smear it on about 1/8" thick from bottom to about 1 1/2 feet above the weld line. Then sand it down. What is the best way to do this. I also have other areas I am working on so will follow the same steps.
    20201012_193626.jpg
    Ever do any drywall (sheetrock work) or see it done? Point I'm making is the side to side of the sheetrock has a bevel so that when the sheets are taped and compounded the taper (bevel) acts as a place for the compound to go for a more level finish. The ends are NOT beveled or have a taper so to get the appearance of a flatter repair, you need to spread the cement joint compound wider. (Hope you understand what i mean - made sense in my mind anyway.)

    Now, for the area you need to fill it would require a lot less filler if the two panels were lower than the surrounding finish height of what they are joined to. Often, to fool the eye for flatness, your filler has to spread out a little further (not thicker). I agree with LEN on the fiberglass filler over the joint. Regular filler DOES absorb moisture/water. Keep us posted!

    Henry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,163

    Default

    i use more of a belt and braces approach. i go epoxy first. then a waterproof filler for the first pass, then regular filler to tweak the surface, then seal with more epoxy. i also take an enormous amount of time to finish a project. glaciers move faster than i do. i also seal the backside as len suggests.
    in the past i have gone with filler over bare metal like len does, no problems there either, but now i just do the extra step cause time isn't an issue for me.
    henry makes a good point, extend the filler over a fairly large area. if you make the filler area too small you can't make the repair appear invisible. the filler should be paper thin, really almost see-through at the edges.
    b marler

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    617

    Default

    At this point I would start by checking the patch panel for conformity using contour gauges. You want your sheet metal correct before you start coating things. Make several cardboard contour gauges from opposite side and check your work. H&D, shrink, stud gun pull and shrink, etc. until panel is absolutely aligned. There is nothing worse than getting a ton of product on the repair and have to strip most of it back off for metal repair highs and lows. I use the bmarler method as well, primer, short strand fiber filler, standard filler, etc.. When speaking of which comes first, primer or filler, you'll get a load of opinions, either way works. Use lots of guide coat while sanding to get that panel flat, eyeballing only doesn't work. As suggested I would strip the existing finishes back a minimum of 6" on either side to help hide repair contour changes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Here is what I have done some far. Am I going in the right direction? What is next? Sure wish you guys were a lot closer to me.
    First I put a layer of short strand filler on the joint.
    20201017_161047.jpg
    Then a layer of filler over the whole thing like this. A bit rougher then I wanted, to much hardner I think.
    20201017_162531.jpg
    Then I sanded it. Using 80 grit sandpaper. The tool I use is in the fourth picture. Sanding is done using a cross hatch pattern, primarily in an up and down motion. Was left with a few spots that did not have enough filler.
    20201017_165844 (1).jpg
    A skim coat over the areas that needed it. You can also see the tool I am using to do this work.
    20201017_171949.jpg
    And a second sanding. All is smooth according to my guide coat.
    20201017_192036.jpg
    Am I doing this right? What else do I need to do or what is the next step?
    Thanks for all the help. If you lived closer to me I would give you a drink or supper to come over and watch/guide me.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    42,791

    Default

    It looks like you're doing a good job, I don't see any major gaffs. I would normally recommend some type of "guide coat" so that you can see variations in the surface so that you know when you got it level but it looks pretty good from here.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    It looks like you're doing a good job, I don't see any major gaffs. I would normally recommend some type of "guide coat" so that you can see variations in the surface so that you know when you got it level but it looks pretty good from here.

    Thanks Len, I did use a guide coat for the final sanding.
    What should I do next? I know it needs to be smoother but how?
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    42,791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marten View Post
    Thanks Len, I did use a guide coat for the final sanding.
    What should I do next? I know it needs to be smoother but how?
    Once the leveling is finished we normally remove the coarse scratches with 180 or 220 before applying the filler primer then guide coat and block sand the filler primer using 400 or 600 wet paper.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Doesn't look like existing paint was scuffed with 80 grit so filler will stick?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    olympia,wa
    Posts
    1,163

    Default

    Looks like the upper center has kind of a hard edge? I like the edges to be pretty much transparent. I might hit it with a skim coat of glazing putty to fine tune it, or hit it with primer and block it to find the areas that need more attention. It depends on what your plan is.
    Looks like you didn't epoxy first, so I wonder if you're just going to primer next? If that's the plan i'd probably hit it with 180/220, prime, block, glaze to fine tune, re-prime and re-block. I'd also consider getting a set of dura blocks, they are really versatile and sanding tools.
    b marler

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    42,791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JMTC View Post
    Doesn't look like existing paint was scuffed with 80 grit so filler will stick?
    Yep, you're right and it could make the edge of the filler unstable causing problems later.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Kemptville, Ontario
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Opps, your right, I did forget to sand down the primer, crap.
    Was not sure what to do next. I did not want to prime and then do more work then prime again if it was not necessary. I have sanded to 120 grit and checked it using glide coat. Was not sure if I need to prime first, then glaze or glaze then primer or, well not sure what else. All I have right now is epoxy primer so if I should be using something else, please say so. I do have a set of dura blocks. I have used a couple of them on other areas but not here.
    I hope I am not being a pain, tried watching you tube videos but that has only left me more confused. Not sure what is a good one. Hence lots of questions now.
    Building my dream one piece at a time.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    75

    Default

    If you go back and look at first picture, the next step, if it were mine would be to sand any existing paint with 240 grit on d/a sander well back beyond weld as far as possible so primer will stick when the time comes, then sand/scuff with 80 grit on both sides of weld extending a foot or so. Then the filler can stick to those scratches.
    I cant tell if it has been sanded under filler but all along the edge of the filler where it meets the existing paint looks pretty shiny and the filler could lift off down the road (months/years).
    If it was not sanded completely under filler I would use a rotary sander with 80 grit and grind all the filler off then start over, but that's just me.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marten View Post
    Opps, your right, I did forget to sand down the primer, crap.
    Was not sure what to do next. I did not want to prime and then do more work then prime again if it was not necessary. I have sanded to 120 grit and checked it using glide coat. Was not sure if I need to prime first, then glaze or glaze then primer or, well not sure what else. All I have right now is epoxy primer so if I should be using something else, please say so. I do have a set of dura blocks. I have used a couple of them on other areas but not here.
    I hope I am not being a pain, tried watching you tube videos but that has only left me more confused. Not sure what is a good one. Hence lots of questions now.
    Any area that you did not give tooth to the surface for a mechanical bite under the filler I would quickly DA back down to the surface with 40g. When it is back down to metal sand that area with 80g and re-apply filler and block out. Myself and bmarler will normally epoxy prime before applying filler, after filler is applied and blocked out several times with guide coat we worked out to 320g and lock that in with a final coat of epoxy as a lot of our projects may sit in epoxy for some time before we are ready to apply final finish coatings. There are just as many people who elect to skip first primer and go straight to filler and finish with epoxy which is just fine.
    I highly suspect Len doesn't final epoxy because he is a production shop where they go front to back, pretty much non-stop. Len correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing after all filler and block work is completed you go straight to sealer (if needed), followed by bc/cc all in the same session. If it takes me several weeks before I'm ready to top coat I don't like parts stored in the filler state only for fear of contamination.
    For several months now I have been using Optex 4:1 hb primer/filler that is a dtm product. The Optex is fairly new to the market and introduced at SEMA last year. I really like this product and it has cut my epoxy primer use down to almost nothing. After going through a few cases of the Optex I now have a system down for it's use and am going to stick with this method.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •