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Thread: HD Road King repair and repaint project

  1. #91

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    I traced the design easily enough with a Sharpie on masking paper. The paper is translucent enough that I was easily able to see the design with the paper reversed. I swiped the pounce wheel from my wife's sewing kit; taped the paper to the cardboard I'm using to protect the coffee table; and pounced the design. I'm going to try to make a pounce pad from an old sock or maybe a rag and blue builder's chalk, since I'm a builder and have that on hand. Hopefully, this will successfully transfer the design and vastly speed up the taping process.

    Assuming it works, which I think it will, I have enough of the old bags to either tape and then trace - or just trace, if I can see it well enough - the original flame design on those parts, and make a pounce pattern for those as well.
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  2. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Very cool!

    One thing that I forgot to mention is that after complex taping, I like to shoot one or two light coats of intercoat clear over my tape edges to help prevent bleeding under the edges.

    Iíve never used a ponce before, but Iíd double check using the blue chalk and definitely donít use red chalk! Iím an old carpenter and I think there is still an old fence that I built in the 80s that has the nails all in a nice straight red line!

    Keep up the good work!

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatBald View Post
    Very cool!

    One thing that I forgot to mention is that after complex taping, I like to shoot one or two light coats of intercoat clear over my tape edges to help prevent bleeding under the edges.

    Iíve never used a ponce before, but Iíd double check using the blue chalk and definitely donít use red chalk! Iím an old carpenter and I think there is still an old fence that I built in the 80s that has the nails all in a nice straight red line!

    Keep up the good work!
    OFB, I should have heeded this advice to shoot some clear over the tape. I have read about shooting light coats to seal the tape edges, but this is the first time I've heard of doing it with clear first. I sprayed my black this afternoon on the one lid. I really wanted to wait until I had all 4 parts ready to go; but I didn't want to let the tape sit too long and possible start coming loose. Among other things, it's a huge waste of paint: This black I'm using gets mixed 8:1:2, so even in a tiny half pint mixing cup, there was a fair amount of paint gone to waste for just this pinstriping. I sprayed it with my airbrush, and like a dumbass, I forgot to wipe with a tack cloth just before spraying. I wiped with "Final Wipe" solvent; waited for that to evaporate; then airbrushed the black on, 3 coats.

    As a side note, I hope my new spray guns spray as well as my airbrush! That thing puts paint down so smoothly, ZERO orange peel.

    I let it flash 6 or more minutes between coats; then let it sit for about 30 before I started peeling off tape. I am trying very hard to avoid having tape edges - the guy who did this last time had BAD tape edges, which, at that time, I didn't realize would show so clearly through the clear. I do not want to have a repeat of that. I removed as much tape as I dared then, which was about 1:15. My wife and I went out to dinner, and I just finished removing the rest of the tape. It's now about 8:45pm. I am not 100% happy with the result. I got some seepage under the tape in places, which is why I said I should have heeded the advice to shoot clear to seal the tape edges. In addition to that, I pulled a little piece of the red off while trying to get under the edge of the tape with the sharp point of a knife. This was successful everywhere except this one spot, but this spot looks really bad. It's down to the primer. See photo. I have some other red to touch up, so I'll mask this off and do the same here. Hopefully, it won't be noticeable.

    As for the places where the black seeped under the paint, and some raggedy tape edges (I just couldn't get them trimmed cleanly with the razor blade without F-ing up the paint on the lid), I am hoping that my final, brushed pinstripe will cover these areas adequately. I really hope so, because if not, this is going to be a good 10 foot paint job and not much better. Maybe I should have started with 1/16" tape instead of 1/8". Not even sure if the supply house has 1/16". As it is, I'm going to need at least 2 more rolls of 1/8"; probably more like 3.

    There are little dust nubs and hairs (probably paper towel fibers from the solvent wipe, which I forgot to follow with tack cloth) all over. Hopefully once it's fully dry, I can lightly sand with 1000 grit or so and get rid of all that.
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  4. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Here is another idea. Sand your paint off and start again. This time paint the lid black and clear coat it with one coat, let it cure well so the tape doesn’t pull it off. Take 3M fine line tape and put your pattern on then spray your red. This time pull the tape as soon as the red has dried and be sure to pull all pieces of tape in the reverse order of application so you pull the top piece off first wherever they cross and keep pressure on the lower tape stays put until you go to pull it off. When you pull the tape be sure to pull the tape 180 degrees to the run direction. That is to say there is a very sharp bend where the tape is being pulled back so that the tape isn’t trying to pull the paint up but actually cutting the paint as it crosses back over itself. Hope that makes sense. Look at it this way, if the tape is put on from east to west then lift the west end and drag it back over the painted tape going east and keep the tape you are pulling close to the surface so the bent edge that progresses cuts the paint instead of trying to lift it. Pull the tape something like 10 minutes after the paint is dry to the touch so it hasn’t developed enough strength to pull the paint up.

    Putting the fine line tape on has a learning curve but it’s easy after you get the hang of it. Put the end of the tape down where you want to start. Since I’m right handed I start on the left side. I hold the starting point with my index finger, pull the roll out about 2 feet away and up so the tape doesn’t touch the lid, then coordinate with both hands in such a way that you slide your index finger along and move the tape roll in the direction of the curve you want to make. You have to move your index finger along proportionately with the change in direction of where you have moved the roll so the curve is smooth. Try it a few times on scrap until you get the hang of it. I’ll bet in 2 minutes of trying you’ll get the hang of it. Free hand is easy. The hard part will come when you try to make a mirror image on the other side. I like 1/8” fine line tape and if you want a fat line then put two strips side by side and fill the gap with more pieces of tape. You can get wider tape but it can’t bend as well as the narrow tape.

    Bob K

  5. #95

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    Use a graphite stick and do a rub over your tape to transfer, not a sharpie

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    474

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    Bob is dead on, all my graphics are done over clear. Either two or three coats, then sanded 600/800. Then tape, shoot the IC clear, candys, pearls etc etc etc. Light coats, light coats!

    For smaller projects like yours, I use HOKís speed (Rokket) clear as my base clear for taping the graphics.

    If you screw up (and you will) you can then use a little reducer (NOT W&G remover) on a rag to clean it up.

    Pulling tape sounds easy, but you need to do it correctly EVERY time, donít get tired and lazy or get ahead of yourself.

    I agree, sand it off and start over, take your time and donít rush it and donít get down on yourself. Just today I screwed up my flowcoat by not adding enough reducer. Looks very good, just not as good as I know that I can do. So Iíll sand it 600/800 again and shoot more clear next weekend! I bet I donít screw up the reducer math next time!

  7. #97
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    Mar 2016
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    Default Another tape trick...

    Another tape trick...

    Use the 1/8 inch for your shape/design etc, then start filling in the other areas but stay off your 1/8 inch tape leaving a small gap NEXT to your design outline. Then the final tape that you put on will bridge that gap.

    When you are ready to pull your tape, you can quickly pull the ďbridgeĒ tape without too much worry leaving just your design tape which is now by itself if that makes sense.

  8. #98

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    I don't know much about painting, I guess obviously. But I know this with certainty: I am not sanding it all off and starting over! I am pretty sure I can fix the little screwups.

    I haven't had much time for this project recently. Getting back to it this weekend. Last night I transferred the flame design to the 2nd lid using my pounce pattern. I am now working on taping it up. In spite of the pattern to follow, it's not 100% duplicated. I'm trying to make a couple of minor improvements, for one thing. And for another, despite having a pattern to follow, it gets confusing with all the overlapping layers. I gotta give the guy who did it in the first place a lot of credit. I gave him a bunch ofpictures and described my concept to him and he executed it. It definitely had some flaws, but I have a newfound appreciation for what he did well.

    OFB, I don't really follow your "bridge tape" description. I'm taping now, maybe I'll post a few in progress pix.

  9. #99

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    Here are a couple pix of the taping. This is the 2nd lid. I'm now working on the bags. I think the bags might go a little faster; they look less complex. But we'll see... the 1st lid took all of 7 hours to get fully taped. This one went a little faster, but not much. I think I have 5 hours in it all together.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #100

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    OFB, I just read your "bridge tape" post for the 4th or 5th time. I think I get it now. If I understand it correctly, what you're saying is to apply the tape that's right next to the design LAST, so that it's the first tape to come off. Not sure if that makes any sense typed... It made sense in myb
    head... Unfortunately, I taped the 2nd lid the same way I did the 1st. But I still have both bags to do.

    I made the pounce pattern and transferred the design this afternoon with powder. Now have to mask them both. It's a little bit simpler on the sides of the bags, so I think it's going to go faster. I am hoping to tape both bags and shoot clear and then black tomorrow. We'll see if I get that far.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    41,191

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    If I were doing that job I'd use this graphic paper, draw the design on it cut out the design and peel off the backing paper to expose the adhesive then spray the painting surface with some solution that allows you to slide the adhesive around, stick on the graphic paper, squeegee out the solution then paint it.

    We normally spray the graphic using single stage paint then, after the graphic paper is removed, we scuff the graphic before applying clear.

    The Graphic paper is 14" wide and we sell it for $5 per foot plus shipping. You would need to call if you want to order because it's not in the online store. 609-859-3670


  12. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    417

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    [QUOTE=Len;391209]If I were doing that job I'd use this graphic paper, draw the design on it cut out the design and peel off the backing paper to expose the adhesive then spray the painting surface with some solution that allows you to slide the adhesive around, stick on the graphic paper, squeegee out the solution then paint it.

    We normally spray the graphic using single stage paint then, after the graphic paper is removed, we scuff the graphic before applying clear.

    The Graphic paper is 14" wide and we sell it for $5 per foot plus shipping. You would need to call if you want to order because it's not in the online store. 609-859-3670

    [/QUOTE

    Len,

    When using a ss for shooting or brushing graphics what precautions are you taking to avoid a cross link peel/adhesion problem when going over 2 part urethane's? Extra set time with a scuff maybe? I don't do a lot of graphics work but when I do I have always matched product for product to avoid an enamel peel when going over urethane bc or cc. The majority of my experience is in simple pin striping of belt lines, ghost flames and badging. Is there anyway you would consider doing a write up (sticky) for referencing using a variety of the materials you have on hand, i.e. graphic paper, proper tape and tape sizes, etc. and the procedures for laying out an intricate pattern such as Northeastconfederate is doing now. It would be nice to have this reference prior to starting a project like his.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightOilJK View Post
    Use a graphite stick and do a rub over your tape to transfer, not a sharpie
    For subsequent transfers, I used a carpenter's pencil.

    Why is this important?

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    41,191

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    [QUOTE=Ronf;391211]
    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    If I were doing that job I'd use this graphic paper, draw the design on it cut out the design and peel off the backing paper to expose the adhesive then spray the painting surface with some solution that allows you to slide the adhesive around, stick on the graphic paper, squeegee out the solution then paint it.

    We normally spray the graphic using single stage paint then, after the graphic paper is removed, we scuff the graphic before applying clear.

    The Graphic paper is 14" wide and we sell it for $5 per foot plus shipping. You would need to call if you want to order because it's not in the online store. 609-859-3670

    [/QUOTE

    Len,

    When using a ss for shooting or brushing graphics what precautions are you taking to avoid a cross link peel/adhesion problem when going over 2 part urethane's? Extra set time with a scuff maybe? I don't do a lot of graphics work but when I do I have always matched product for product to avoid an enamel peel when going over urethane bc or cc. The majority of my experience is in simple pin striping of belt lines, ghost flames and badging. Is there anyway you would consider doing a write up (sticky) for referencing using a variety of the materials you have on hand, i.e. graphic paper, proper tape and tape sizes, etc. and the procedures for laying out an intricate pattern such as Northeastconfederate is doing now. It would be nice to have this reference prior to starting a project like his.
    Actually the way we would cut the graphic paper would be by tracing the exact design on piece of paper then taking it to a vinyl sign or car wrap business and have them scan the drawing so that they can cut the design out of the graphic paper. Then it can be brought back to the job and used to mask the design. The sign business that we use will also pick out the pieces that we want removed, they have the skill and tools to remove those areas quickly which makes the transfer much easier.

    I never have a problem with clear peeling off the color as long as the single stage is sanded with some 1000 or 1200 grit wet. I don't brush on paint so I don't know those variables.

    As far as the graphic paper goes it works great on flat or surfaces with a slight amount of shape but we recently did a motor cycle tank and had to use graphic paper AND tape because the graphic paper wrinkled over some of the peak and curved areas. Also when using graphic paper we use a product called Rapid Tac to wet the surface so the paper doesn't stick until the moisture is squeeged out.

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northeastconfederate View Post
    OFB, I just read your "bridge tape" post for the 4th or 5th time. I think I get it now. If I understand it correctly, what you're saying is to apply the tape that's right next to the design LAST, so that it's the first tape to come off. Not sure if that makes any sense typed... It made sense in myb
    head...
    Hope my little photo below helps.

    The yellow lines represent the layout tape of the actual edge of the "design" tape, I would then fill in the majority of the area that I want masked off (blue lines) getting close to, but not on the yellow tape.

    Then I would add the "bridge" tape (not shown) which would cover 1/2 to 3/4 of the yellow tape and hang well over the blue tape. That way after I am done shooting whatever graphics, I can easily pull the "bridge" tape without worrying about my edges. Also there is less paint on the actual yellow "design" tape.

    FBS makes an orange crepe tape in various widths which is awesome for the masking (blue lines in my photo).

    I almost always run my design tape, then offset another run of tape which would be represented by the outer blue lines in my photo, then I would fill in with the crepe masking which allows me to run a razor over the inner masking tape, then add my final "bridge" tape.

    Hope that helps and doesn't confuse the issue further!!!!!

    Purple Panel -Tape Example.jpg

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