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Thread: How to Prep + Rust Proof Coat Undercarriage Brace?

  1. #16
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    Default Argon

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    have you tried floating some argon over the por when you close it? it should block the oxygen from reaching the surface. i do this with almost all products now because i use them so slowly.
    other topic: i use zero rust too, and love it. but i'm wondering what's your favorite reducer to use with it? it firms up pretty quickly if you put it in an open container to brush/roll it.
    No I haven't tried Argon, think waving a little C25 over it would work? Gonna give this a shot next time.

  2. #17
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    Default lacquer thinner nvs Acetone

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I use lacquer thinner.
    Any reason to use lacquer thinner over acetone? I use a lot of acetone for thinning various coatings like PPG LF primers. Is off gassing more of an issue with the acetone in comparison with lacquer thinner for paint primer popping?

  3. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Any reason to use lacquer thinner over acetone? I use a lot of acetone for thinning various coatings like PPG LF primers. Is off gassing more of an issue with the acetone in comparison with lacquer thinner for paint primer popping?
    I'm not an expert on the attributes of acetone versus thinner but I think it should be ok to use the acetone with ZR. Give it a try on a test panel first and don't over-thin the ZR because you want it to dry slowly.

  4. #19
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    Default Next time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Will do Len and thank you! Reason I love coming here for tips and tricks! In the past I've used a lot of Por15 for both new and rust repair metal, I cannot begin to tell you how much I've wasted from just opening the can on POR15. Once air is introduced into Por15 from opening the can your going to get 10-15% wasted crust over minimum when put into storage and I don't care how fast you pour out what you need and put the lid back on (I even seal the lid with foil tape trying to keep the air out). I'm not knocking POR15, it's a great product when needed under the right circumstances and applied under strict control conditions (or it will de-laminate). I keep POR15 on the shelf in qts only, as to keep waste to a minimum after opening a can. I'm hoping to alleviate that waste problem with the ZR.
    I'll soon be doing a chassis rebuild for a frame off restoration and plan on using both the ZR and POR15 to compare the two, obviously it will be time that will tell. However, as this will be a classic car for my personal car collection I'll be able compare over time. Thanks again for the info!
    Store on 'upside down' next time. That should seal off the opening.

    YES, make sure the cap, cover, lid is on securely.

    Henry

  5. #20
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    Default Got it

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I'm not an expert on the attributes of acetone versus thinner but I think it should be ok to use the acetone with ZR. Give it a try on a test panel first and don't over-thin the ZR because you want it to dry slowly.
    Thanks Len. P sheet for ZR shows you can use it for thinning, will probably not thin but about 5%, I'll swap tips before thinning more. Just looking to get it to flow out nicely (underside of floor pans won't be seen but I still like to do good work, so this will be a great practice session).

  6. #21
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    Thanks Len. P sheet for ZR shows you can use it for thinning, will probably not thin but about 5%, I'll swap tips before thinning more. Just looking to get it to flow out nicely (underside of floor pans won't be seen but I still like to do good work, so this will be a great practice session).
    The finish is flat (no gloss) so making it level won't show much.

  7. #22
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    Default Thanks henry

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Store on 'upside down' next time. That should seal off the opening.

    YES, make sure the cap, cover, lid is on securely.

    Henry
    Sometimes the simplest answers are right there in front of your face and you can't see them! Your solution is absolutely worth a shot. I use to pour out what I needed and dump the rest into a new qt container, followed by wrapping the lid in HVAC grade aluminum tape, all with the hopes of keeping the product from crusting over and loosing so much product, didn't help. Several years back I talked to the techs at POR15 about this problem and they pretty much confirmed that once the can was open and air was introduced there is nothing to be done for the crust over. This never made sense to me considering it isn't crusted over when I originally opened it. Now bmarler comes along with a pretty good idea of introducing argon into the can to displace the oxygen. I'm thinking this is similar on how we weld up our HVAC systems to stop corrosion created from brazing. So, I am going to give both ideas a shot. I use to purchase small 4 oz containers of pressurized argon for doing my own HVAC brazing work at the house, unfortunately I don't have a supplier for those containers anymore, so I'll shove my mig welder tip near the lid when I close it up and then turn the can upside down and see what happens. As I use C25 gas (75% argon, 25% CO) for mig welding it should give a good example for this test, we'll see. Thanks for your help my friend, always enjoy your replies!

  8. #23
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    Jun 2019
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    Default

    what about hitting it with a rust neutralizer/converter and then putting on fluid film?

  9. #24
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    Default

    great conversation. interesting point len makes regarding cure time. i always find that lacquer thinner dries out pretty fast and leaves less sheen in the finished product. acetone should dry even faster i would think. i have switched to xylene for paints (not zero rust) that i want to dry more slowly and retain more gloss. i'm going to try xylene with the zero rust now and see if i see any difference in the finished product. i definitely notice a difference in finish between the spray cans and the stuff i mix from a quart can. presumably the thinner is making the difference.

    the idea of the argon is not mine, and has been around for a long time. any inert gas should do the trick. i haven't used 75/25 but i imagine it would work. nitrogen should work also. len sells bloxygen in the store, it's just argon in a small can. when i realized that's all it was i just started using it from my tig torch. it really works well for preserving the old paint when i seal up the can. i also put it in the hardener before i close it up and it helps keep it fresh. i don't know if turning the can upside down will further enhance it but i guess it could if there are pin holes allowing air transfer at the seal.
    b marler

  10. #25
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    Default Sheen

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    great conversation. interesting point len makes regarding cure time. i always find that lacquer thinner dries out pretty fast and leaves less sheen in the finished product. acetone should dry even faster i would think. i have switched to xylene for paints (not zero rust) that i want to dry more slowly and retain more gloss. i'm going to try xylene with the zero rust now and see if i see any difference in the finished product. i definitely notice a difference in finish between the spray cans and the stuff i mix from a quart can. presumably the thinner is making the difference.

    the idea of the argon is not mine, and has been around for a long time. any inert gas should do the trick. i haven't used 75/25 but i imagine it would work. nitrogen should work also. len sells bloxygen in the store, it's just argon in a small can. when i realized that's all it was i just started using it from my tig torch. it really works well for preserving the old paint when i seal up the can. i also put it in the hardener before i close it up and it helps keep it fresh. i don't know if turning the can upside down will further enhance it but i guess it could if there are pin holes allowing air transfer at the seal.
    When you use the xylene on the ZR can you give a feed back on the sheen? I am going to use the ZR on bottom side of new floor pans so am curious how this comes out. Yes, with acetone it is definitely going to flash and dry quicker so I'm going to switch thinning products for the pans.

  11. #26
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronf View Post
    When you use the xylene on the ZR can you give a feed back on the sheen? I am going to use the ZR on bottom side of new floor pans so am curious how this comes out. Yes, with acetone it is definitely going to flash and dry quicker so I'm going to switch thinning products for the pans.
    sure thing. not sure if i will get to it this week or next though. this week is getting chewed up pretty quickly and the holiday weekend is adding complications to my schedule. but when i get the opportunity i'll do a spray out with the xylene and lacquer thinner side by side.
    b marler

  12. #27
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    Default Thanks bmarler

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    sure thing. not sure if i will get to it this week or next though. this week is getting chewed up pretty quickly and the holiday weekend is adding complications to my schedule. but when i get the opportunity i'll do a spray out with the xylene and lacquer thinner side by side.
    Thanks for the help. Time is no problem before I get to my floor pans with the ZR

  13. #28
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    Default

    i finally got a chance to spray the zr reduced with xylene. here's the level of sheen on an airbox part from my car.
    it's really close to the sheen you get from the spray cans but it lays down much smoother from the gun. i also really like how well it seems to bite into the previous coat even if it was sprayed days ago.
    IMAG2434.jpg
    b marler

  14. #29
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    Default Love it

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    i finally got a chance to spray the zr reduced with xylene. here's the level of sheen on an airbox part from my car.
    it's really close to the sheen you get from the spray cans but it lays down much smoother from the gun. i also really like how well it seems to bite into the previous coat even if it was sprayed days ago.
    IMAG2434.jpg
    bmarler,

    Thanks for providing this, it is exactly what I was looking for! Now going to use the xylene as a reducing agent (as opposed to acetone) for my underside floor pans. Got the gallon of ZR last week from Len and am just a few weeks out from shooting, just need to pulled the body first.

    I really appreciate you taking the time to post this. I have over 7k hours in this build and am going for my best build ever after 40 years of racing and restoring classic cars. I'm actually getting to the end of this project, can't wait to drive her. Thanks again!

  15. #30
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    olympia,wa
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    Default

    you're quite welcome,
    i know how easy it is to put the man hours in on a project. the car this air box goes in has been in my shop for about ten years...granted, i only get an hour or two here and there to work on it but still.
    it started as a fairly simple repaint but slowly morphed into a full fledged project.
    be sure to post a pic or two when you're ready, we all need pics for motivation.
    b marler

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