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Thread: Spray Gun Education "SATA"

  1. #1
    PainterDave Guest

    Default Spray Gun Education "SATA"

    i Recently tested a Sagola for a freind, my opinion is it was not the right gun for me. why ? Well simply because it does not match the flow rates im use to. NO it is not a bad gun, very nice actually.

    This is a mistake most painters make because they do not understand one gun manufacture to the next. SATA spray equipment does not measure their size tip in MM, they just name it to whats close.
    they have a target flow rate and the tip size varies to get that flow rate. So for me to like a Sagola it would take getting the flow rates of their guns and matching it to what i like in SATA, only then will the gun feel comfortable to me and give me the "feel" im looking for. because a 1000 dollar gun does not spray nice unless it feels good to you. i hear a lot of gun bashing or paint sucks comments on forums and the truth is the people making those statements just are not educated enough about what they are doing. Sadly most painted fake it till they make it. Educated painters dont call reps complaining, they make the adjustments necessary and keep rolling.

    here is a little info, ill edit and add more later

    Here is a quote from a good friend at SATA

    June 17, 2019
    SATA has a few different premium Topcoat guns. They have a range of nozzle sets, and flow rates that increase as the fluid tip name gets bigger. SATA fluid nozzles don’t necessarily match the name in mm. The fluid nozzles are not measured in mm, but are merely named to be relative to that size. This is especially true when talking HVLP. In HVLP, we have only 10 psi at the aircap. Thus the air blowing across and sucking the paint out of the fluid tip is low. When this happens the fluid tip is slightly larger to get the proper flow rate.
    In the SATAjet 5000 B, we have both HVLP and RP guns. HVLP is 10 psi aircap pressure. RP stands for reduced pressure. By reduced pressure it means if you put 29 psi into the gun, about 22 psi comes out of the aircap, giving a slightly higher gun speed than HVLP. It is usually a more focused fan, giving faster wetting as well.
    In the SATAjet 5000 B the HVLP range is 1.0, 1.2, WSB, 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 1.9 & 2.2
    In the SATAjet 5000 B RP the range is 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0 & 2.5 poly
    The fluid flow rate gets faster as you go up the scale in either. This may be very necessary when spraying in hot conditions, or when spraying larger surfaces where you need to get even wetting across large flat surfaces, and keep good gun speed. The larger nozzle size can also help in many cases when spraying fleet colors, particularly flat or matte gloss colors on larger surfaces.
    In your shop in Denver, it seems you spray a variety of paint from DBC to Global, EHP and Delfleet. Typically the Delfleet likes a bit larger tip.
    In the 5000 I would probably shoot a 1.4 HVLP or a 1.3 RP for DBC, and Global.
    In the 5000 I would spray a WSB HVLP for EHP, moving up to a 1.3 on hotter days.
    In Delfleet I would shoot an RP with a 1.4, or on larger surfaces move to a 1.6 to get a wide, wet pattern.
    All of the above color would start at about 26 psi. When hotter, go down in pressures.

    For clear, with slower clears, typically you can spray around 26 psi too. For faster clears, start at 22, and go down even lower for hot temps.

    In the new SATAjet X 5500
    SATA has changed the nozzles to have options. In each size, from 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 there are both I shape and O shape fans.
    The difference is the I shaped fans help to spread the wet center out closer to the ends of the fan, providing a taller more narrow fan, which is especially beneficial with waterborne paint. It helps the colors to be even, and improves flash times. This nozzle is also a more “controlled” paint speed, and helps to prevent striping if overlaps are not 100% accurate, and is a bit more flexible in gun distance from the panel.
    The O shaped fans are slightly shorter in fan height, but wider, with the wet center being more centered, for a faster wetting and work speed. This is liked by painters who love to move fast, paint closer to the panel, and have good overlap, usually in the 75% overlap range or higher.

    With DBC, the standard is either the 1.4 in HVLP, or 1.3 in RP. Most often the O nozzle is preferred for DBC Solvent base, but some who want to paint a little slower prefer the I nozzle.
    With EHP waterborne, the SATAjet X 5500 HVLP 1.3I is the new standard recommended by the PPG Gun Club on their new Gun chart. (attached in this e-mail). They offer a smaller 1.2O, but usually used in higher humidity areas. The 1.3 I HVLP has proven best across the USA in various climates. Recommended pressures are 23-26 PSI for coverage coats, and 16-18 for the Control Coats. Higher end of the pressure range on more humid climate days.
    If you want to use a SATAjet X 5500 RP, then go down to the 1.1I. The recommended air on this SATAjet X 5500 RP is from 24-28 PSI, and the control coat at 24-16 PSI.
    The larger nozzles, 1.4 RP or 1.5 in HVLP work great in Solvent basecoats or single stage materials. When going with the “O” style nozzle it really makes wetting up a panel, especially larger ones easier.

    SATAjet 1500 B SoLV.
    We also have a gun specifically designed for spraying solvents. It is called the SATAjet 1500 B SoLV. This gun was designed to help wet up and control film build and metallics with solvent paint. It has a nice height fan, but is slightly wider, with a wet focus to help make film build even with solvent basecoats, single stage materials or clearcoats. It also sprays sealers very well.
    This is available in both HVLP and RP, and only in 1.3 or 1.4 nozzle sets. For faster work speed, or larger surfaces the 1.4 is the best choice in either. Great flexibility in gun distance, low CFM and a super durable gun body make this a great choice for spraying solvent.

    The SATAjet RP 1.3 and 1.4 are now listed as the preferred guns to spray PPG Delfleet One.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default

    If you're not happy with the "flow rate" can't you just increase the tip size to increase the flow?

  3. #3
    PainterDave Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    If you're not happy with the "flow rate" can't you just increase the tip size to increase the flow?
    yes sir ! but knowing flow rate is key, otherwise you're just guessing

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    yes sir ! but knowing flow rate is key, otherwise you're just guessing
    OK so what flow rate do you like for the PPG clear that you spray and is that information available for guns other than Sata guns?

  5. #5
    PainterDave Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    OK so what flow rate do you like for the PPG clear that you spray and is that information available for guns other than Sata guns?
    Depends what im spraying,

    Delfleet 1.4 1.6 RP
    EC530 1.2i 1.3i RP 5500
    Envirobase 1.2i 1.3i HVLP

    to name a few.

    yes Len Iwata comes in the box with that info

    i have Teknas info if you want it. i will be posting them all in this thread so people can understand the differences

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    Depends what im spraying,

    Delfleet 1.4 1.6 RP
    EC530 1.2i 1.3i RP 5500
    Envirobase 1.2i 1.3i HVLP

    to name a few.

    yes Len Iwata comes in the box with that info

    i have Teknas info if you want it. i will be posting them all in this thread so people can understand the differences
    Yes, please post flow rates. I normally run my guns wide open without choking them down and I judge my guns by the finish that they produce.

  7. #7
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    Default Another Flow Rate Question

    So you have a Sata that posts a certain flow rate, doesn't that flow rate change with every different material that you spray? Doesn't the viscosity of the material also become an important variable?

  8. #8
    PainterDave Guest

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    Len EXACTLY !!! Yes it does matter. But how many people you think use a viscosity cup ? Even when people read a tech sheet. Itís all on there to get the right viscosity but people do not follow it. They simply reduce by the tech sheet. Or maybe add a little more reducer. But never actually check the viscosity. Then they blame the gun.... or say they donít like the paint !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    Len EXACTLY !!! Yes it does matter. But how many people you think use a viscosity cup ? Even when people read a tech sheet. It’s all on there to get the right viscosity but people do not follow it. They simply reduce by the tech sheet. Or maybe add a little more reducer. But never actually check the viscosity. Then they blame the gun.... or say they don’t like the paint !
    So the "flow rate" means very little if it can vary with all of the paint products.

    To tell the truth I watch the surface that I'm painting and adjust my technique or gun accordingly, I've never been schooled on flow rate by any of the gun manufacturers.

    We have a professional painter that uses many Sata guns and he purchased a Sagola 4600 and says that he now uses it exclusively for clear because it produces a much better result than any of his Sata guns. We've heard this from several customers that thought that the 4500 was too slow but once the switched to the 4600 it became their go-to gun.

  10. #10
    PainterDave Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    So the "flow rate" means very little if it can vary with all of the paint products.

    To tell the truth I watch the surface that I'm painting and adjust my technique or gun accordingly, I've never been schooled on flow rate by any of the gun manufacturers.

    We have a professional painter that uses many Sata guns and he purchased a Sagola 4600 and says that he now uses it exclusively for clear because it produces a much better result than any of his Sata guns. We've heard this from several customers that thought that the 4500 was too slow but once the switched to the 4600 it became their go-to gun.
    and that's due to flow rate of the guns, if you compare the two you will probably find the 4600 to put out more paint. flow rates due matter if you learn how to use them.

    a good example is the company i paint for, we paint on a global level. We have been having problems in one of our locations and we found it was due to the use of a certain gun with smaller flow rates even though the tip was the same size as other locations use. so we matched the flow rates of the guns up and problem has been solved.

    gun tips do not all measure the same, air moving through the gun is not the same either, air helps pull paint from the gun making flow rates different from model to model so ultimately will yield different results from one type of gun to another. will it help you and your shop ? maybe... but most likely only if you got a painter struggling with one type of gun and another doing well with another type, simply match that flow rate and both painters will do well with their choice of gun.

    you said it yourself sir, 4500 to slow, 4600 better. most likely the same tip size correct ? what changed ? the flow rate changed

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    Depends what im spraying,

    Delfleet 1.4 1.6 RP
    EC530 1.2i 1.3i RP 5500
    Envirobase 1.2i 1.3i HVLP

    to name a few.

    yes Len Iwata comes in the box with that info

    i have Teknas info if you want it. i will be posting them all in this thread so people can understand the differences
    I would like to see the Tekna's info.
    We were spraying this week with a Sagola 4500 on a large vehicle (52 Hudson). It has the 1.3xl tip and we found it agonizingly slow for this much area. Switched to my first gen Tekna with 1.3 tip and was shocked at the difference. It was like comparing a garden hose to a fire hose? The tekna did a great job. Used Tamco 2104 Euro clear.

  12. #12
    PainterDave Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker View Post
    I would like to see the Tekna's info.
    We were spraying this week with a Sagola 4500 on a large vehicle (52 Hudson). It has the 1.3xl tip and we found it agonizingly slow for this much area. Switched to my first gen Tekna with 1.3 tip and was shocked at the difference. It was like comparing a garden hose to a fire hose? The tekna did a great job. Used Tamco 2104 Euro clear.
    exactly, same tip size, different flow rate. if the flow rates are not important why do the gun manufactures have them ?


    you will notice here different flow rates for the same size tip in Tekna,

    Tekna.jpg

  13. #13
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    If I had a business if spraying large objects like firetrucks or airplanes then the flow rate would be good info in determining what gun setup would save me the most material cost. However I don't know any auto shops that purchase spraying equipment based on flow rate. Do you?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    If I had a business if spraying large objects like firetrucks or airplanes then the flow rate would be good info in determining what gun setup would save me the most material cost. However I don't know any auto shops that purchase spraying equipment based on flow rate. Do you?
    However I agree that the speed of a gun is important and the Sagola 4500 was slower than their newer 4600.

  15. #15
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    Len,
    Can we get this data for the Sagola's guns?

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