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Thread: New Here!!! Candy is too light, could use some advice.

  1. #1

    Default New Here!!! Candy is too light, could use some advice.

    A little background. I own a 72 Challenger (340 slap) and two 73 roadrunner (both 340 one slap and one 4 speed). The challenger is going back to it's original color (GA4/light gunmetal) as is one of the RR's (FY1/top banana), but the auto RR I was going to lay a candy paint on it. I have never done a candy so when a friend asked me to paint a candy on his wife's 1965 C10 stepside, I said why not. DUMB idea. Way too much time and way too much money. Not to mention that it is really testing my skill set. Anyway, here is what I did. Really nice body work/prep followed by JP331 sealer (white), then two coats of Deltron 2000 gold metallic (with 5% DX57 activator), followed by a drop coat of the same, next I sprayed 4 coats (75% overlap) of Deltron 2000 wineberry candy (again with the DX57), followed by two initial coats of JC630 clear. The truck is blown apart so only the front fenders,doors, and grill assembly were done this time around (cab was done about a month ago). I know, spray candy all at once because it is very difficult to match but this was not my choice. The new panels look great except they are a touch too light and look like candy apple instead of the darker wineberry look (so they don't match the cab spot on) , should have been 5 coats of candy. I need to fix this! My thought was to allow the clear to set up a few more days, skuff with 600 grit (dry), spray another candy coat, and then re-clear with 2-3 coats. What do you guys think, will this work the same a 5 initial candy coats would have? Thanks

    P.S> I also noticed that each coat of clear made the color darken slightly, maybe just wishful thinking that another shot of clear alone could solve my problem. The color is not very far off, I would just clear it and call it good but I kinda want to do it right.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    39,330

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    The mistake was mostly spraying panels separately. I'm not sure that there's going to be an accurate match if you continue to try to tackle the panels separately.

    Also you are adding a significant film build when you shoot more candy and clear. This can work against you as the finish ages.

  3. #3

    Default Candy too light

    If I could have the done the truck in one go I would have but since it was completely disassembled and media blasted I couldn't.
    On a regular BC/CC I could have done the jambs/firewall/back of cab etc., first and then just sprayed the truck whole blending in the spots done first. With this tri-coat system that would have given me extra candy base in a lot of areas, like the rear fender area on this stepside. The BEST thing I could have done was to find a BC/CC that looks like the candy, but she was set on this color. Which is fine, I just have to fix this issue to get it out of my garage.

    Biggest concern is spraying the candy base coat over the clear. Not that it will bother the clear, but what grit to use to skuff up the
    clear. Spec sheet advises to "Sand with 400‐600 grit sandpaper or equivalent". I kinda think that is a little aggressive for the clear, but maybe not, I am not a pro here by any means, but I have laid down a few really nice paint jobs, just not this one, YET

    I am leaning toward skuffing with 600 grit, spay the 75% overlap candy base but increase arm speed so as to make this coat lighter than a normal coat, then put on 2 normal coats of clear. I could lighten up on the cut and buff so as not to go through the clear.

    Thoughts???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    39,330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Builderguy View Post
    If I could have the done the truck in one go I would have but since it was completely disassembled and media blasted I couldn't.
    On a regular BC/CC I could have done the jambs/firewall/back of cab etc., first and then just sprayed the truck whole blending in the spots done first. With this tri-coat system that would have given me extra candy base in a lot of areas, like the rear fender area on this stepside. The BEST thing I could have done was to find a BC/CC that looks like the candy, but she was set on this color. Which is fine, I just have to fix this issue to get it out of my garage.

    Biggest concern is spraying the candy base coat over the clear. Not that it will bother the clear, but what grit to use to skuff up the
    clear. Spec sheet advises to "Sand with 400‐600 grit sandpaper or equivalent". I kinda think that is a little aggressive for the clear, but maybe not, I am not a pro here by any means, but I have laid down a few really nice paint jobs, just not this one, YET

    I am leaning toward skuffing with 600 grit, spay the 75% overlap candy base but increase arm speed so as to make this coat lighter than a normal coat, then put on 2 normal coats of clear. I could lighten up on the cut and buff so as not to go through the clear.

    Thoughts???
    If you put on a couple coats of clear you probably won't have a problem going through when sanding and polishing. Just be careful when sanding that you don't take too much off.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Builderguy View Post
    If I could have the done the truck in one go I would have but since it was completely disassembled and media blasted I couldn't.
    On a regular BC/CC I could have done the jambs/firewall/back of cab etc., first and then just sprayed the truck whole blending in the spots done first. With this tri-coat system that would have given me extra candy base in a lot of areas, like the rear fender area on this stepside. The BEST thing I could have done was to find a BC/CC that looks like the candy, but she was set on this color. Which is fine, I just have to fix this issue to get it out of my garage.

    Biggest concern is spraying the candy base coat over the clear. Not that it will bother the clear, but what grit to use to skuff up the
    clear. Spec sheet advises to "Sand with 400‐600 grit sandpaper or equivalent". I kinda think that is a little aggressive for the clear, but maybe not, I am not a pro here by any means, but I have laid down a few really nice paint jobs, just not this one, YET

    I am leaning toward skuffing with 600 grit, spay the 75% overlap candy base but increase arm speed so as to make this coat lighter than a normal coat, then put on 2 normal coats of clear. I could lighten up on the cut and buff so as not to go through the clear.

    Thoughts???
    I am in no way experienced enough to shoot a complete car in candy and I only do panels for my own (and friend's) stuff, but I do use a lot of candies over flakes.

    I wouldn't go any coarser than 800 since you are just shooting clear (with some candy mixed in) over clear.

    What I do like to do is spray a test panel (about 16" x 24") with the same materials (epoxy, primer, base etc) that I plan on using and then tape them off with at least three or four layers of tape each on an inch or so wider. Then I shoot the panel and pull one of the tapes, then shoot again and pull another line of tape etc, then clear the test panel. That way when I am done I can take the panel out in the sun and see what tone that I am going for and I have a visual reference when I am shooting the colors.

    The gold V below is the same exact candy over the exact same base, just a different number of layers of candy. I also had a test panel for the outer copper colored stripe which is actually orange flakes covered with copper candy. I originally thought that I wanted to use some root beer brown flake, but they turned out looking like crap and I was glad that I had done a test panel!!

    Anyways, I am sure there are guys here with a LOT more experience than me that can help you out.

    Also, post some pics!

    (T) Round 2 (1).jpg
    (T) Round 2 (3).jpg

  6. #6

    Default

    OldFatBald,

    That is a pretty sweet paint job my friend, I salute you!!

    My candy is a PPG tri-coat system that uses several coats of candy base (mid-coat) over a metallic gold base (ground coat), then several coats of clear.

    I am a little nervous that after I sand the clear down with 600 wet (which I just did this evening) and obtain that even flat look that the following coat of candy base will not have the same effect as spraying the candy base over the original gold metallic base. I know that the metallic base also did not have a shine to it like clear coat does, but it still worries me that the ground coat won't show through like it should. If it was tinted clear I would just start spraying but this candy base is a whole new ball game for me. I don't
    have a panel I can test on unless I spray it with all 11 coats and then sand down the last coat of clear. I know I could do that but time is becoming an issue so I was looking for a solid answer to kinda swat all the butterflies down.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    401

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    I guess the good news is at this point it doesnít matter, your gonna get what you get. Sounds like that mid coat is one of those translucent base coats vs a true candy.

    It also sounds like you have plenty of experience, so just go for it! And make sure that you have plenty of clear if you are going to cut n buff, you donít want to try to blend that combo.

    Make sure to post pics!

    BTW, what was the total paint materials cost for that system? I used the PPG Envirobase for that Caddy trunk base and loved it once I got the hang of it. But it was pricey.

    Sorry that Iím not much help.

  8. #8

    Default

    Lets see: The metallic gold had to go over a white substrate (sealer) @ $75
    Then a gallon of the gold base and reducer plus the DX57, around $500 for that
    Then a gallon of the candy base, reducer, and DX57, toss in another $750
    Then the clear at around a $160 per gallon with the hardner, so around $1500 give or take
    and I had to get a second gallon of candy base since it is so dark. More $$$$ May be a little stepside
    but it takes a lot of paint.

    On the bright side, I did find a white hood in the shed, so I sanded the clear on that so
    at least I will have an idea of what is going to happen.

    I am headed out to spray the hood now, so I have my fingers crossed, but I like your thinking, what's done is done
    so time to let her rip

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    lower Michigan
    Posts
    20,369

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatBald View Post
    I am in no way experienced enough to shoot a complete car in candy and I only do panels for my own (and friend's) stuff, but I do use a lot of candies over flakes.

    I wouldn't go any coarser than 800 since you are just shooting clear (with some candy mixed in) over clear.

    What I do like to do is spray a test panel (about 16" x 24") with the same materials (epoxy, primer, base etc) that I plan on using and then tape them off with at least three or four layers of tape each on an inch or so wider. Then I shoot the panel and pull one of the tapes, then shoot again and pull another line of tape etc, then clear the test panel. That way when I am done I can take the panel out in the sun and see what tone that I am going for and I have a visual reference when I am shooting the colors.

    The gold V below is the same exact candy over the exact same base, just a different number of layers of candy. I also had a test panel for the outer copper colored stripe which is actually orange flakes covered with copper candy. I originally thought that I wanted to use some root beer brown flake, but they turned out looking like crap and I was glad that I had done a test panel!!

    Anyways, I am sure there are guys here with a LOT more experience than me that can help you out.

    Also, post some pics!

    (T) Round 2 (1).jpg
    (T) Round 2 (3).jpg
    I really like that paint job, looks kind of Art Deco. Did you spray over a type of lace to get the flower pattern in the red ?

  10. #10

    Default

    Update on the candy being too light.

    It worked, looks just like 5 coats of the original would have looked!!!!!

    I will get the panels bolted back on in the next couple of weeks and then

    include some photos.

    Thanks for all the help, ideas, and encouragement.

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