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Thread: repair standards question

  1. #1
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    Default repair standards question

    so my wife's car was backed into in a parking lot and a corner of the hood was damaged. hit and run. instead of just fixing it myself my wife talked me into filing a claim for repair. so we scheduled the repair at a local shop that had good reviews, and had the repair done.
    they fixed the damaged area shot base and clear on the whole hood. when i picked it up i noticed they didn't feather out any of the rock chips on the remainder of the hood, just painted over them. when i questioned the shop they only said if they fixed them all they would have to strip the whole panel.
    i'm wondering if this is standard practice at high production shops? i'm not trying to get something for nothing and am willing to accept whatever is standard practice, but is this right? they're small chips, at first i thought it was fisheye until i looked closer. i know that back when i did collision repair we didn't do stuff like that, and wouldn't do it now. thoughts?
    b marler

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    so my wife's car was backed into in a parking lot and a corner of the hood was damaged. hit and run. instead of just fixing it myself my wife talked me into filing a claim for repair. so we scheduled the repair at a local shop that had good reviews, and had the repair done.
    they fixed the damaged area shot base and clear on the whole hood. when i picked it up i noticed they didn't feather out any of the rock chips on the remainder of the hood, just painted over them. when i questioned the shop they only said if they fixed them all they would have to strip the whole panel.
    i'm wondering if this is standard practice at high production shops? i'm not trying to get something for nothing and am willing to accept whatever is standard practice, but is this right? they're small chips, at first i thought it was fisheye until i looked closer. i know that back when i did collision repair we didn't do stuff like that, and wouldn't do it now. thoughts?
    In most cases the chips are feathered, primed, block sanded and painted. If there are a lot of chips along the front edge then it's usually stripped with a sander then primed and painted. If there are a lot of chips are all over the hood then the hood is usually stripped, primed and painted.

    We recently did a Hyundai that had a lot of paint missing along the front edge but it went back about a foot from the front so we stripped the entire hood which took about an hour.

  3. #3
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    bmarler, do you have the copy of estimate?..

    did they basecost the entire hood and vlended fenders?

    sometimes insurance only pays for partial color andd blend of the hood if onky corner dmaged...

    if entire hoood was painted then they should have fixed those stone chips but maybe i surance did not pay them enough hours to do it...

    i own and run my own shop, one man shop, the appraisers are usually ok to allow for some extra work on the hooood, if within basecost color and enoguh room to bkend, i will fix chips and small dents...

    thr production shops, it is always a gamble, the techs will follow whatever work order is given

  4. #4
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    yes, i have a copy of the estimate. they have 7 hr on the hood for outside of panel, underside of panel, edge refinish underside, blend within panel, feather, block time.
    when i asked the estimator to explain the repair he said they would paint the entire hood, no blend on the fenders unless needed. the color match is acceptable, gloss and orange peel match ok, not great. i was satisfied with his explanation, but sure didn't expect them not to feather the stone chips.
    i also expected oem replacement headlight but got a tyc instead. estimate says most cost effective. he originally said he found a recycled oem for it, but i guess that didn't happen.
    is this just the way it is these days? i guess you could say it looks better, (at least until you look closer) but it doesn't seem right to me. did they think they were doing me a solid by putting base on the whole panel?
    b marler

  5. #5
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    I think your mistake was not asking the insurance company to pay you for doing it. You're very capable of doing it yourself unless it's that your wife is like mine and she knows it may be a few weeks before you to get around to it. My insurance company gave me $1700 for hail damage to my car hood, roof and trunk. They said they didn't care if I repaired it or not, the payment was for my loss. They did tell me that they would deduct the amount paid for this claim if I had any other damage to those panels unless I got it repaired and inspected by my agent. I fixed it, he looked it over and certified that the car was fully repaired.

    Bob K

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    Yes to what Bob K said. 7HRS for paint time on hood or total time on estimate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob K View Post
    I think your mistake was not asking the insurance company to pay you for doing it. You're very capable of doing it yourself unless it's that your wife is like mine and she knows it may be a few weeks before you to get around to it. My insurance company gave me $1700 for hail damage to my car hood, roof and trunk. They said they didn't care if I repaired it or not, the payment was for my loss. They did tell me that they would deduct the amount paid for this claim if I had any other damage to those panels unless I got it repaired and inspected by my agent. I fixed it, he looked it over and certified that the car was fully repaired.

    Bob K
    i was going to do it myself but my wife talked me out of it. she's just trying to lighten my insane work load. when if first happened i was planning to fix the dent and just paint the whole front clip as it's got quite a few rock chips from all the freeway driving she does. i wasn't even going to file a claim. i should have stuck to that plan as i would only have myself to blame for any defects. i guess i'll just have to live with it until i get a chance to fix it right. i just wish i'd taken that money i spent for the deductible and bought supplies instead...
    b marler

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommie.b View Post
    Yes to what Bob K said. 7HRS for paint time on hood or total time on estimate?
    7 hr for the hood alone. that should have been plenty of time for them to feather, prime, and block the rock chips or strip the whole thing. i would have just stripped it and be done with it. like len said, 1 hour would strip the panel.
    i just can't believe how these guys just act like i'm being picky or unreasonable that they leave defects like that. like they do it all the time and nobody says anything...
    i just hate being disappointed every time i have anybody do any work on my stuff. i expect quality work but that's just not what you get these days.
    b marler

  9. #9
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    Most shops do what the insurance company pays them to do. If it's not on the estimate -- then it doesn't get done.(unless it's some nickle dime thing that won't come back to bite them in the ass later.

    Look at it from the shops perspective. If only the front center edge of the hood was damaged then the insurance company would pay to repair that metal damage, blend the basecoat staying away from color at the fender edges then clear the entire hood. NO paintwork blending and clearing into the fender tops. IF that shop has stripped the entire hood to get rid of the stone chips then it would have required blending into the fender tops, cost probably twice as much for materials and labor and increase their liability by at least 100%. Like the old adage goes "no good deed goes unpunished".

    Point being some customers will turn that freebee work into a clusterf*k where they will go over the entire car with a magnifying glass and nit pick everything to the point of being ludicrous.

    THAT is why most shops stick with the insurance estimate. I always do more than I originally agree to but at the same time I don't stick my neck out there too far either.

    Honestly YOU (Bmarler) should have asked the shop when you dropped the car off if they were going to repair all the stone chips for free. If they said no to free then the two of you could have negotiated the additional cost of the added labor and materials to repair all the stone chips and extra work that goes along with it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    Most shops do what the insurance company pays them to do. If it's not on the estimate -- then it doesn't get done.(unless it's some nickle dime thing that won't come back to bite them in the ass later.

    Look at it from the shops perspective. If only the front center edge of the hood was damaged then the insurance company would pay to repair that metal damage, blend the basecoat staying away from color at the fender edges then clear the entire hood. NO paintwork blending and clearing into the fender tops. IF that shop has stripped the entire hood to get rid of the stone chips then it would have required blending into the fender tops, cost probably twice as much for materials and labor and increase their liability by at least 100%. Like the old adage goes "no good deed goes unpunished".

    Point being some customers will turn that freebee work into a clusterf*k where they will go over the entire car with a magnifying glass and nit pick everything to the point of being ludicrous.

    THAT is why most shops stick with the insurance estimate. I always do more than I originally agree to but at the same time I don't stick my neck out there too far either.

    Honestly YOU (Bmarler) should have asked the shop when you dropped the car off if they were going to repair all the stone chips for free. If they said no to free then the two of you could have negotiated the additional cost of the added labor and materials to repair all the stone chips and extra work that goes along with it.
    i did ask the shop to explain the repair when i took it for the estimate. they said they would fix the damaged area base the entire hood and clear. they said they would match the paint and if the color was off they'd blend the fenders. it's black so they were confidant they could get a good match, and they did.
    i assumed when they said they were going to base the entire hood that they'd feather the stone chips. that's why i asked the question in the first place. the original question was in regards to that point. is it common practice for shops to paint over chips? that was what i was asking.
    now, after having the car back for a couple of days, there's another problem. i can see the outline of the repair. there's a fuzzy line you only see in certain light. either it's sand scratch or maybe the base lifted the substrate at the edge. i think it's under the clear but it's hard to tell.
    i don't want to be an ass about it, and i'm not trying to get something for free. i said that at the beginning. i do however, want a decent repair.
    i was just going to let it go, but now what?
    b marler

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    i did ask the shop to explain the repair when i took it for the estimate. they said they would fix the damaged area base the entire hood and clear. they said they would match the paint and if the color was off they'd blend the fenders. it's black so they were confidant they could get a good match, and they did.
    i assumed when they said they were going to base the entire hood that they'd feather the stone chips. that's why i asked the question in the first place. the original question was in regards to that point. is it common practice for shops to paint over chips? that was what i was asking.
    now, after having the car back for a couple of days, there's another problem. i can see the outline of the repair. there's a fuzzy line you only see in certain light. either it's sand scratch or maybe the base lifted the substrate at the edge. i think it's under the clear but it's hard to tell.
    i don't want to be an ass about it, and i'm not trying to get something for free. i said that at the beginning. i do however, want a decent repair.
    i was just going to let it go, but now what?
    I would complain to the insurance company first and if they don't satisfy you then complain to the shop. I say complain but I'd start by just saying that you're not happy with the work.

  12. #12
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    One thing I have learned working on the 2017 Honda Ridgeline is that all the shops I contacted about the Honda spec welding wire for various high tensil steel, is not being used. It took me two solid days to find the right tensil mig wire that is supposed to be used for welding the area I was working. All of the shops are just using the old ER70S wire (78,000 PSI) that I have always used for restoration work. In the newer vehicles with high strength steel, the tensil strength is much higher and the panel/frame part should be welded with matching wire. If an accident occurred and the repaired area doesn't hold up due to improper weld material, the shop that did the repair is liable.
    Of course, customers would not know this -----

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I would complain to the insurance company first and if they don't satisfy you then complain to the shop. I say complain but I'd start by just saying that you're not happy with the work.
    that's exactly what i'm going to do. i'm very aware that i am one of the worst types of customer, my eye is a magnet to defects, can't help it. but i am aware of it at least. that's why i bounced this around here before going back to the shop. i'm letting the stone chip thing go, but the read through at the repair area has to get fixed.
    b marler

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker View Post
    One thing I have learned working on the 2017 Honda Ridgeline is that all the shops I contacted about the Honda spec welding wire for various high tensil steel, is not being used. It took me two solid days to find the right tensil mig wire that is supposed to be used for welding the area I was working. All of the shops are just using the old ER70S wire (78,000 PSI) that I have always used for restoration work. In the newer vehicles with high strength steel, the tensil strength is much higher and the panel/frame part should be welded with matching wire. If an accident occurred and the repaired area doesn't hold up due to improper weld material, the shop that did the repair is liable.
    Of course, customers would not know this -----
    they are used to dealing with uninformed customers. no one asks, so they just play the odds i guess. that could be a dangerous position to take these days.
    b marler

  15. #15
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    I know what your saying but in reality you could feather the chips and apply 3 ounces of surfacer then wet sand the surfacer and block sand the read through and hit it with black and clear in about the same amount of time as you will spend driving to the shop, convincing the guy to do the work getting the car back there on the day they agree to repair it and then get someone to take you back and pick it up. I know there is a certain amount of satisfaction in getting them to do it right but it's harder on you in the long run. On the other hand I don't do this all day every day and a little project like that falls under entertainment for me.

    Bob K

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