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Thread: What is your opinion regarding featuring hood paint into exiting fenders ?

  1. #1
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    Default What is your opinion regarding featuring hood paint into exiting fenders ?

    Just wanted to get some learned opinions regarding a hood repaint repair job. Took my wife's Pontiac Vibe to get a bid on repainting the hood & front valance due to road chipping. The car has it's original factory paint and is called " Fusion " The same paint code for the Corvette for that same year. This was a special factory ordered paint color. I have heard that HOK licensed some of their colors to GM in that time frame and this was one of them … If not I could easily believe it … Anyway when I went to get the bid and due to this unique paint color I stated it would be a good idea to completely strip the hood and the front valance in order to make sure due to the paint, there would be no creep shrink back into existing small chips even if they would be faired properly as this can happen and since spot painting with this particular paint could be problematic at best. Of course this is a BC/CC job and I was told they would then have to feather the new paint out onto and over into the exiting outer fenders in order to blend the paint.

    Question is, I have always thought that blending BC/CC new paint over and into existing factory clear coated areas can create a sandwiching effect. The result being delimitation can very well occur down the road. The reasoning being new base coat paint is being applied over the prep'ed exiting factory clear coat and then new clear coating being applied over the newly applied base coat … thus the sandwich effect. They would have to clear coat the entire outer front front fenders then color sand the new clear coat. Problem is the entire paint job has never been knocked down and has always been garaged except to go out for shopping or local trips then back into the garage so the existing factory paint is pristine but not flat and then I could see having to color sand the entire car on the sides to match.. in short causing a whole lot of work ...

    So what are your thoughts ? I believe painting the hood and blending into the existing front fenders is gonna present a real matching problem. If this is a possibility then I was thinking that I would have them paint just the front valance only and see how it goes.

    BTW when painting plastic factory valances, I told them that when painting the front valance it should be positioned on the paint stand buck in the same orientation as when attached to the car. These valances are plastic and it has been my experience that these ultra fine flake high depth paints do not layout well onto plastic when applied in a downward fashion and have a great tendency to flatten out. However on the other hand, applying this type of paint straight on in a horizontal fashion like you would an attached car door this paint does not dull or flatten. Has anyone else experience this phenomenon as well …. ? - dave

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspray View Post
    Just wanted to get some learned opinions regarding a hood repaint repair job. Took my wife's Pontiac Vibe to get a bid on repainting the hood & front valance due to road chipping. The car has it's original factory paint and is called " Fusion " The same paint code for the Corvette for that same year. This was a special factory ordered paint color. I have heard that HOK licensed some of their colors to GM in that time frame and this was one of them … If not I could easily believe it … Anyway when I went to get the bid and due to this unique paint color I stated it would be a good idea to completely strip the hood and the front valance in order to make sure due to the paint, there would be no creep shrink back into existing small chips even if they would be faired properly as this can happen and since spot painting with this particular paint could be problematic at best. Of course this is a BC/CC job and I was told they would then have to feather the new paint out onto and over into the exiting outer fenders in order to blend the paint.

    Question is, I have always thought that blending BC/CC new paint over and into existing factory clear coated areas can create a sandwiching effect. The result being delimitation can very well occur down the road. The reasoning being new base coat paint is being applied over the prep'ed exiting factory clear coat and then new clear coating being applied over the newly applied base coat … thus the sandwich effect. They would have to clear coat the entire outer front front fenders then color sand the new clear coat. Problem is the entire paint job has never been knocked down and has always been garaged except to go out for shopping or local trips then back into the garage so the existing factory paint is pristine but not flat and then I could see having to color sand the entire car on the sides to match.. in short causing a whole lot of work ...

    So what are your thoughts ? I believe painting the hood and blending into the existing front fenders is gonna present a real matching problem. If this is a possibility then I was thinking that I would have them paint just the front valance only and see how it goes.

    BTW when painting plastic factory valances, I told them that when painting the front valance it should be positioned on the paint stand buck in the same orientation as when attached to the car. These valances are plastic and it has been my experience that these ultra fine flake high depth paints do not layout well onto plastic when applied in a downward fashion and have a great tendency to flatten out. However on the other hand, applying this type of paint straight on in a horizontal fashion like you would an attached car door this paint does not dull or flatten. Has anyone else experience this phenomenon as well …. ? - dave
    All your thoughts on blending over the fenders is false, forget it all, not even close, forget about it. If the hood and fenders are not at a perfect matching plane you may be able to shoot that color (if it's the one I remember) as the colors will be different if the planes are different even if it were painted with the same paint. If it is the "Multi tone" paint that I think it is it shouldn't be too bad IF the fenders and hood are at a different plane. If they are the same plane, just blend it, and forget all the old husbands tails you have heard about blends.

    Brian
    Touched by an Angel.

  3. #3
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    … thanks for your input Brian regarding the blend… with that said, it was the shop tech who told me they would have to blend out beyond the hood onto the top of the fender that is indeed on the same plane but only extends for about 4 inches before it drops off vertically down towards the ground and it was that area if they continued down onto the side of the front fender I was concerned about …. regarding blending into large areas it has been my experience that sandwich delimitation can occur when painting over the top of exiting factory bc/cc jobs just wanted to see if others have had heard of the same occurring - dave

  4. #4
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    Dave, blending has nothing what so ever to do with failing clear coats like that. If it's going to fail it's going to fail. If it's not then it won't with the blend or without it.

    Brian
    Touched by an Angel.

  5. #5
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    If the surface is prepped properly and decent paint materials are used you won't have adhesion problems. We do a lot of blending of color and clear and never have any peeling. If the job is rushed or cheap paint is used it can come back to haunt you.

  6. #6

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    Not to get off topic but I have a similar question. First I really respect everyone on this site for there experience and knowledge and the willingness to share with us. I bought this 71 Cuda and the paint is pretty nice on it. I want to change the hood to a shaker hood. The problem is that the no ones knows what the color is on the car. I want to change the hood and repaint to match. Also there a few minor dents on the tops of the fender I will look to fix. Also the grill needs to be repainted because the last guy forgot to fix the cracks. What would be the best way to approach this job? I am willing to listen and will post pictures as I go through the process. Please share anything that will help me.

    Thanks Ken
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
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    Default Nice car...

    Quote Originally Posted by convertcuda View Post
    Not to get off topic but I have a similar question. First I really respect everyone on this site for there experience and knowledge and the willingness to share with us. I bought this 71 Cuda and the paint is pretty nice on it. I want to change the hood to a shaker hood. The problem is that the no ones knows what the color is on the car. I want to change the hood and repaint to match. Also there a few minor dents on the tops of the fender I will look to fix. Also the grill needs to be repainted because the last guy forgot to fix the cracks. What would be the best way to approach this job? I am willing to listen and will post pictures as I go through the process. Please share anything that will help me.

    Thanks Ken
    (Next time make a new thread for your car) I say that mainly so it would get its own attention and not be buried at the bottom of another thread.

    Anyway, yours is a classic and looks very good from what we can see. Need to ask if you have experience in doing this work and we can branch out from there.

    As far as your color, if I needed to know, I would take a part of the car (or drive the car itself) to the paint shop I use and ask them to 'camera' your actual color. They would then depending on their software of camera, paint and computer find closest matches. If you can't drive the car there, then take a piece to them. All I can think of on that car 'might' be the gas cap. Not sure if the paint on your cap is identical to the paint on the rest of the car but polish it up, check it on the hood for a match and although it's small, ask if they can camera the piece. Once you have what the shop and you feel is the same color you'll need to do a couple 'spray outs' then match those with the existing paint on the car.

    For the dents, if the paint is not broken, you can ask around for PDR people. They are professionals who use specific tools to work dents back out without painting them. The process is called Painless Dent Removal and they are mainly Mobile workers since much of their work is done at car new car dealers (and that's a place you may see such a person in the back yard or ask inside). I can't say what the outcome would be since your car has a different metal than newer cars whereby the metal stretches differently. Still worth a try.

    Listen, unless they're big obnoxious dents you may just want to live with them. The alternative is sand, grind, pull the dent apply some filler then primer and worst is have to blend into adjoining areas. Why not post a couple pics of the damage you're talking about.

    Henry

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    (Next time make a new thread for your car) I say that mainly so it would get its own attention and not be buried at the bottom of another thread.

    Anyway, yours is a classic and looks very good from what we can see. Need to ask if you have experience in doing this work and we can branch out from there.

    As far as your color, if I needed to know, I would take a part of the car (or drive the car itself) to the paint shop I use and ask them to 'camera' your actual color. They would then depending on their software of camera, paint and computer find closest matches. If you can't drive the car there, then take a piece to them. All I can think of on that car 'might' be the gas cap. Not sure if the paint on your cap is identical to the paint on the rest of the car but polish it up, check it on the hood for a match and although it's small, ask if they can camera the piece. Once you have what the shop and you feel is the same color you'll need to do a couple 'spray outs' then match those with the existing paint on the car.

    For the dents, if the paint is not broken, you can ask around for PDR people. They are professionals who use specific tools to work dents back out without painting them. The process is called Painless Dent Removal and they are mainly Mobile workers since much of their work is done at car new car dealers (and that's a place you may see such a person in the back yard or ask inside). I can't say what the outcome would be since your car has a different metal than newer cars whereby the metal stretches differently. Still worth a try.

    Listen, unless they're big obnoxious dents you may just want to live with them. The alternative is sand, grind, pull the dent apply some filler then primer and worst is have to blend into adjoining areas. Why not post a couple pics of the damage you're talking about.

    Henry
    Hi Henry,
    I will take your advice and start a thread. I will copy it over.

    Thanks Ken

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by convertcuda View Post
    Hi Henry,
    I will take your advice and start a thread. I will copy it over.

    Thanks Ken
    Did Mopar have a similar red in '71 ?

    I really like that body style of Cuda's. One of the very few cars I would like to own today. I drool every time I think back seeing the new B5 blue AAR Cuda's. That is etched into my memory like watching an old movie. A friend of mine has a Hemi Cuda convertible clone. The only downside is he painted it a crappy light sand beige non metallic color.

    Ok, back on topic. Is there any way you can contact the person who painted the car last ? That would narrow down the color and hopefully he might have some left over paint to give you.

    If the answer to those last two questions is no the I suggest following Henry's advice and have the current color scanned at the paint store with their color scanner. My hands on experience with scanning existing paint at the paint store is two out three times the paint match is close and one out of three times the color is way off. Point being if you go the scanner route then spray out a test panel and check for match with the existing color before you commit to spraying you new hood and fender tops. You do know you will have to clear coat both complete fenders, right ?

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