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Thread: Rust mitigation between panel and inner structure

  1. #1
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    Sep 2017
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    Question Rust mitigation between panel and inner structure

    Hello All! I have a hood and trunk that are 60's metal and quite solid aside from rusting/scaling between the skin and inner structure. With no intention to delam what would be the best plan of attack to remediate tween-panel rust?

    My thoughts gravitate towards the liquid solution:

    We've got "neutralizers" (e.g. Naval Jelly, Extend, Evapo-Rust, etc.) that have no long term protection and also require thorough rinsing/removal prior to priming and painting. Pretty much making this a non-starter for this application.

    Then there are "converters" (e.g. Picklex 20, Corroseal, Black Star, etc.). Some of which can, while others can't, be painted over using the typical automotive paint. Viscosity also looks to vary between products.

    Last on the list would be "rust paints" (e.g. Rust Bullet, POR-15, etc.). It seems these would all be a little thick to effectively saturate inaccessible crevices.

    Your insight would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Nov 2005
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    Default What?

    Quote Originally Posted by aurecom View Post
    Hello All! I have a hood and trunk that are 60's metal and quite solid aside from rusting/scaling between the skin and inner structure. With no intention to delam what would be the best plan of attack to remediate tween-panel rust?

    My thoughts gravitate towards the liquid solution:

    We've got "neutralizers" (e.g. Naval Jelly, Extend, Evapo-Rust, etc.) that have no long term protection and also require thorough rinsing/removal prior to priming and painting. Pretty much making this a non-starter for this application.

    Then there are "converters" (e.g. Picklex 20, Corroseal, Black Star, etc.). Some of which can, while others can't, be painted over using the typical automotive paint. Viscosity also looks to vary between products.

    Last on the list would be "rust paints" (e.g. Rust Bullet, POR-15, etc.). It seems these would all be a little thick to effectively saturate inaccessible crevices.

    Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
    What kind of car parts are these and what do you intend to do with them? Will they be used on a vehicle that will be exposed to the elements; rain, snow, salt, etc.? Lastly, are there any signs of the rust eating through the finished area either top or bottom of the pieces?

    Henry

    Just noticed, you are new here. WELCOME ABOARD!

  3. #3
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    Nov 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aurecom View Post
    Hello All! I have a hood and trunk that are 60's metal and quite solid aside from rusting/scaling between the skin and inner structure. With no intention to delam what would be the best plan of attack to remediate tween-panel rust?

    My thoughts gravitate towards the liquid solution:

    We've got "neutralizers" (e.g. Naval Jelly, Extend, Evapo-Rust, etc.) that have no long term protection and also require thorough rinsing/removal prior to priming and painting. Pretty much making this a non-starter for this application.

    Then there are "converters" (e.g. Picklex 20, Corroseal, Black Star, etc.). Some of which can, while others can't, be painted over using the typical automotive paint. Viscosity also looks to vary between products.

    Last on the list would be "rust paints" (e.g. Rust Bullet, POR-15, etc.). It seems these would all be a little thick to effectively saturate inaccessible crevices.

    Your insight would be greatly appreciated.
    Can you post a couple of pictures (close and farther away) of the problem?

  4. #4
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    Sep 2017
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    Thanks gentleman!

    To give you the semi-long story. I have a '65 Impala SS that's been sitting out in the elements under various car covers since '87. Most of the skin has shed the original paint and now sports a 100 grit rustpaper finish. This I plan to sand down, use a rust remover for any deeper pits, epoxy prime then surface as required. She also does have the expected northeast wheel opening rot which I'll be patching with fresh metal. Timeframe is between now and next spring, one panel at a time, so I expect epoxy prime is the correct choice?

    The attached images display my OP concern. As you can see the trunk lid is actually in very good condition. There is absolutely no compromise of metal integrity. I'd say 100% surface rust which places my focus on neutralizing (as best as possible) any rust that has formed between the skin and inner frame. The hood though is a more daunting task. The rust is a little heavier and upon closer inspection I do see two areas where there is rust-through likely requiring 2"x2" patching to clean metal. The hood definitely requires some attention to mitigate rusting between the spider frame and skin.

    What seems like a real catch-22, with regards to this application, is the need to completely cleanse the surfaces after using rust removers and neutralizers prior to applying an epoxy primer. My other thought (if I didn't have your expertise to lean on) was to spray wand into the cracks-n-crevicies a thicker rust paint in hopes of simply taking advantage of the conversion and encapsulation properties to stave off any progression.

    Sadly time and tech has passed me by as I last performed body and paint work when lacquer/enamel was the staple and Imron the new voodoo on the block.

    Gallery with additional pictures


  5. #5
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    Dec 2008
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    Bay Area, California
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    Default

    In 1989 I was pondering this issue with the trunk lid on my 68 Mustang as the hood was fine. I was concerned about the back lip where the holes are for putting the letters spelling out Mustang. Many lids were rusted badly along the inside bottom lip because of this. I decided to try an Eastwood Rust Converter that was available at the time. Took the pint bottle and poured it all in with the lid flat and then swished around to coat everywhere. After a period of time I poured it out into a container and let it cure. Wasn't worried about paint as there was never much there on any stock Mustang.That lid is still fine today 29 years later.

  6. #6
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    We would use a wire brush to remove any loose paint and rust then we would use a metal conditioner like Picklex 20, work it in with a scuff pad, allow it to dry and apply epoxy primer or Zero Rust. After that process you can apply paint if you want and, depending on how it's stored it should last for years.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Appreciate the replies! Sorry for not responding sooner, was wholly preoccupied.

    tbm3fan, you hit my concern right on the head -- inside bottom lip of trunk lid which is not accessible (along with inaccessible areas between hood panels).

    My fear is, based on much I have read, that most of the thinner solutions require a thorough flushing or scrubbing prior to top-coating. Failure to do so would result in blistering or peeling in the near future due to the remaining acids (the seams are what concern me). To add to that it seems epoxy primers are even more susceptible to this. That said, it does look like a number of the rust converters include a primer and are ready to accept application of most all primers/paints, as you describe Picklex 20 Len.

    A perfect product would be a no-post-prep after application epoxy safe rust converter that is water thin so as to easily squirt by wand into blind areas and wick into seams. I'll definitely look into the products you guy's have noted.

  8. #8
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    lower Michigan
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    The only way to end up with a rust free car is to start with a rust free car. There is NOTHING that can be done about rust in pinch welds (like the bottom of the deck lid in the pictures. Nothing short of separating the two panels, sandblasting them to rust free clean metal then welding the panels back together is going to stop rust. Rust is a form of cancer, if you don't remove ALL of the rust then it will come back to haunt you.

    let me say it again -- if you want a rust free car when you're done, then start with a rust free car to begin with.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurecom View Post
    Appreciate the replies! Sorry for not responding sooner, was wholly preoccupied.

    tbm3fan, you hit my concern right on the head -- inside bottom lip of trunk lid which is not accessible (along with inaccessible areas between hood panels).

    My fear is, based on much I have read, that most of the thinner solutions require a thorough flushing or scrubbing prior to top-coating. Failure to do so would result in blistering or peeling in the near future due to the remaining acids (the seams are what concern me). To add to that it seems epoxy primers are even more susceptible to this. That said, it does look like a number of the rust converters include a primer and are ready to accept application of most all primers/paints, as you describe Picklex 20 Len.

    A perfect product would be a no-post-prep after application epoxy safe rust converter that is water thin so as to easily squirt by wand into blind areas and wick into seams. I'll definitely look into the products you guy's have noted.


    We've recently started using this spray-able "Cavity Wax" where hidden metal surfaces are accessible.



    3M also makes a "Wand Kit" that helps inject the cavity wax into seams and tight places.

  10. #10
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    Sep 2017
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil V View Post
    The only way to end up with a rust free car is to start with a rust free car. There is NOTHING that can be done about rust in pinch welds (like the bottom of the deck lid in the pictures. Nothing short of separating the two panels, sandblasting them to rust free clean metal then welding the panels back together is going to stop rust. Rust is a form of cancer, if you don't remove ALL of the rust then it will come back to haunt you.

    let me say it again -- if you want a rust free car when you're done, then start with a rust free car to begin with.
    Absolutely, that is the unfortunate reality. My intention is just to impede the the inevitable for as long as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    We've recently started using this spray-able "Cavity Wax" where hidden metal surfaces are accessible.
    Actually had a few cans of that product given to me so I used it on a recently purchased vehicle prior to any rust formation.

  11. #11
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    lower Michigan
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    The best I have found for preventing rust in panels that are rust free is a spray can undecoating. Not your normal black rubberized undercoating but a relatively liquid spray that penetrates into crevices then turns to a gel like substance. Works great. It's manufactured by Transtar.

  12. #12
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    olympia,wa
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    Default

    is that the 4423 amber stuff?
    b marler

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    is that the 4423 amber stuff?
    I don't remember the item number designation but "amber rust proofing" definitely rings a bell.

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