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Thread: High flow couplers

  1. #46
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    HIGH VOLUME. LOW PRESSURE

    HVLP.

    These guns perform better with volumes of air achieved by wider and high flow couplings.

    Of course you can get there with 100 psi to the gun but it DOES AND WILL cause turbulence inside the guns cap.

    By opening up the holes with high flow and not choking the gun down you leave the air to move easily and calmly to the tip giving you better atomization and transfer efficiency.

    you guys could simply go study air volume vs air pressure and you will understand what we are telling you. Christ man the damn gun is NAMED HIGH VOLUME LOW PRESSURE. telling you they operate off VOLUME not Pressure.

    If you guys don't get that I don't know what to tell you...

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    HIGH VOLUME. LOW PRESSURE

    HVLP.

    These guns perform better with volumes of air achieved by wider and high flow couplings.

    Of course you can get there with 100 psi to the gun but it DOES AND WILL cause turbulence inside the guns cap.

    By opening up the holes with high flow and not choking the gun down you leave the air to move easily and calmly to the tip giving you better atomization and transfer efficiency.

    you guys could simply go study air volume vs air pressure and you will understand what we are telling you. Christ man the damn gun is NAMED HIGH VOLUME LOW PRESSURE. telling you they operate off VOLUME not Pressure.

    If you guys don't get that I don't know what to tell you...
    So what you believe is that even though the same amount of air is in and out of the gun at the same pressure that the pressure in the hose will cause a difference. Is that correct?

    I'm measuring the pressure at the air cap which is the same if it's regulated at the wall or at the gun. But what you believe is that the VOLUME (amount) of air changes even though the gauges on the cap read the same no matter how the air is regulated?


    This is how I''m measuring PSI at the air cap

  3. #48
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    Put a balloon over the cap and see which fills faster

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh paint View Post
    Put a balloon over the cap and see which fills faster
    Now that's humorous.

    If the gauges say 10 PSI using either input then the same amount of air is coming out of the cap. A balloon is not an accurate way to measure anything.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    HIGH VOLUME. LOW PRESSURE

    HVLP.

    These guns perform better with volumes of air achieved by wider and high flow couplings.

    Of course you can get there with 100 psi to the gun but it DOES AND WILL cause turbulence inside the guns cap.

    By opening up the holes with high flow and not choking the gun down you leave the air to move easily and calmly to the tip giving you better atomization and transfer efficiency.

    you guys could simply go study air volume vs air pressure and you will understand what we are telling you. Christ man the damn gun is NAMED HIGH VOLUME LOW PRESSURE. telling you they operate off VOLUME not Pressure.

    If you guys don't get that I don't know what to tell you...
    not buying the turbulence argument. we understand the concept of high volume/low pressure, that's why we're not spraying at 55-60 psi anymore, and sending all that overspray into the air. but it's common engineering principle that orifice size and pressure will determine flow (volume) as long as you supply more than is required by the gun, you're good to go.
    b marler

  6. #51
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    Not really a argument. It is how I was trained by SATA in Germany.
    It is how I was trained by BASF , PPG , AKZO NOBEL , . I am not making up stuff here buddy.
    If SATA pays thousands of dollars to fly me to Germany to train me I'm damn well going to listen. I'm passing along what the people that make the gun have taught me. Wether you want to listen is up to you. It don't effect me at all. nor will i continue this conversation any longer.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    Not really a argument. It is how I was trained by SATA in Germany.
    It is how I was trained by BASF , PPG , AKZO NOBEL , . I am not making up stuff here buddy.
    If SATA pays thousands of dollars to fly me to Germany to train me I'm damn well going to listen. I'm passing along what the people that make the gun have taught me. Wether you want to listen is up to you. It don't effect me at all. nor will i continue this conversation any longer.
    I'd recommend that you test their theory and let us know what you find.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Now that's humorous.

    If the gauges say 10 PSI using either input then the same amount of air is coming out of the cap. A balloon is not an accurate way to measure anything.
    It was meant to be..but....on two identical guns it would show the difference in pressure vs volume. I'm on the it don't matter side...but both arguments can be validated tho...

  9. #54
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    Cool

    Yes sir I do everyday. I find they are correct.

    I paint for BMW AUDI CADILLAC GMC CHEVY PORSCHE just to name a few.

    I have been trained by most paint manufacture. We train and test everyday.
    With all do respect to you and your forum I thought you was here to present a knowledge base community for your members ? Or are you the "know it all" painter that believes he knows everything and when he don't he tries to tear down proven factual knowledge to feel smart or hide behind the fact you ain't so knowlagabke after all ?

    I assure you Len using the equipment the way it was designed WILL yield better results.
    It is clear you're the guy that will never grow in this industry and hide behind 60 year old methods because nobody could possibly know better than you. I wish you the best in this industry and hope you learn to grow with it.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainterDave View Post
    Yes sir I do everyday. I find they are correct.

    I paint for BMW AUDI CADILLAC GMC CHEVY PORSCHE just to name a few.

    I have been trained by most paint manufacture. We train and test everyday.
    With all do respect to you and your forum I thought you was here to present a knowledge base community for your members ? Or are you the "know it all" painter that believes he knows everything and when he don't he tries to tear down proven factual knowledge to feel smart or hide behind the fact you ain't so knowlagabke after all ?

    I assure you Len using the equipment the way it was designed WILL yield better results.
    It is clear you're the guy that will never grow in this industry and hide behind 60 year old methods because nobody could possibly know better than you. I wish you the best in this industry and hope you learn to grow with it.
    Do you use spray guns with high pressure and low pressure prior to the inlet? If so what is the difference?

    I'm not a know-it-all however I'm giving you my result after experimenting with this variable and you're giving us a result based on what someone told you. If you have a cap gauge I suggest that you use it both ways and let us know what you find, that's what I did. I spray a variety of materials using a variety of guns using a variety of air pressure and I can tell you that I haven't seen ANY difference by using air regulated at the wall or regulated at the gun.

    The only negative difference was that high pressure initially causes a slightly harder trigger pull.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Do you use spray guns with high pressure and low pressure prior to the inlet? If so what is the difference?

    I'm not a know-it-all however I'm giving you my result after experimenting with this variable and you're giving us a result based on what someone told you. If you have a cap gauge I suggest that you use it both ways and let us know what you find, that's what I did. I spray a variety of materials using a variety of guns using a variety of air pressure and I can tell you that I haven't seen ANY difference by using air regulated at the wall or regulated at the gun.

    The only negative difference was that high pressure initially causes a slightly harder trigger pull.
    You are missing the whole point of this and nobody can explain it to you as you fail to believe it.You hung some masking paper on a wall and did your aircap gauge test (which was wrong) and came to your conclusion.I have also been to numerous paint company training centers(not some jobber afternoon course with pizza and beer ) for 3-5 day courses with every gun and gauge known to man and numerous technical experts and engineers on hand.Not only did they explain it but we got to spray real cars both ways and compare the results.

    Did you actually paint a car or are you relying on your "test" with a worn out gun and who even knows if your air cap gauge is accurate?
    I can guarantee if you actually listened,changed your hoses and gun to a high flow fittings.Ditch the cheater valve altogether on your sagola digital gun and leave it wide open and adjust it at the wall(with the air micrometer open all the way) and use it for clear the results will speak for themselves.

    This whole discussion has been about how a cheater valve will cause a restriction to your gun and limit the volume of air.The information and the facts to support it are out there,it is not fiction or a belief.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by typicalcarguy View Post
    You are missing the whole point of this and nobody can explain it to you as you fail to believe it.You hung some masking paper on a wall and did your aircap gauge test (which was wrong) and came to your conclusion.I have also been to numerous paint company training centers(not some jobber afternoon course with pizza and beer ) for 3-5 day courses with every gun and gauge known to man and numerous technical experts and engineers on hand.Not only did they explain it but we got to spray real cars both ways and compare the results.

    Did you actually paint a car or are you relying on your "test" with a worn out gun and who even knows if your air cap gauge is accurate?
    I can guarantee if you actually listened,changed your hoses and gun to a high flow fittings.Ditch the cheater valve altogether on your sagola digital gun and leave it wide open and adjust it at the wall(with the air micrometer open all the way) and use it for clear the results will speak for themselves.

    This whole discussion has been about how a cheater valve will cause a restriction to your gun and limit the volume of air.The information and the facts to support it are out there,it is not fiction or a belief.
    I've been to many trainings myself and I've never had them tell me not to use an inlet regulator. As for the paper on the wall it was just to see if the pattern was larger or smaller with varying air pressure in the hose. No difference as long as it was corrected by the inlet pressure gauge.

    I spray vehicles a couple times a week so I know the variables and how to correct them. This testing was done using a Sata gun and a Sata air cap gauge and there was NO DIFFERENCE in the pressure in the cap when the pressure in the hose was changed and corrected by the inlet regulator. If the air volume had changed it would have changed the pressure in the cap, it didn't. Buy an air cap gauge and check it yourself.

    One more thing... I have hoses with high flow fittings and hoses without them and their is no difference in spraying performance until the hose get close to 100' long.

    I have a question for you guys that think I'm wrong.... Do you think that air volume coming out of the air cap can be increased without increasing the PSI?

  13. #58
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    When was the last time you took a 3-5 day training course at a basf ,ppg or akzo facility? 1985?To answer your last question take your cheater valve off and your air cap pressure will increase........

    I can see a difference,Dave can see a difference hundreds to thousands of Other refinishers let alone all of the spray gun/coatings manufacturers can as well.Keep doing what your doing.......


    Ps one more gauge you can use to prove this is a cfm gauge installed in your airline to show how many cubic feet a minute flow through the airline when it is hooked up to the spray gun with a cheater valve and without.Happy experimenting.......

  14. #59
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    IMG_20170321_2110297.jpgIMG_20170321_2109007.jpgIMG_20170321_2107088.jpg

    Disclaimer......i respect all of the opinions expressed here, i am grateful to Len for having this great site and forum,, i always learn something here.....typicalcarguy has given me some great advice before regarding spray guns and certian brands of paint.....as well as painter dave who helped me out with my question regarding the setup of satajet 4000b hvlp, ...he suggested that i should run it wide open and regulate air close to 35 psi at the wall and Sata did perform better..... ..and i am thankful for their advice...

    so this is how i see it could be explained visually, crudely......, Optima 1100 LVLP gun with procap/ac cap which is their reduced pressure cap, not LVLP air cap , fluid 3 turns out....similar to te20 aircap...3/4 inch inlet air to the booth, 35 feet long flexilla hose and Aro milton cuplers, not high flow (yet)......the reason i chose this gun is due to its placement of air gauge very very close to the air cap and air regulator that can be seen in the picture..the air gauge is also fan regulator, so all is wide open and the proximity of it to the air cap indicates the air pressure close to the air cap....so i can get 2 bar, 28-30 psi with air regulator open 1/4 of the way and around 60 psi at the wall, or i can open it fully wide open air regulator to the max, as seen in the pictures, and around 40 psi at the wall, pressure drop due to length of hose and around 2 bar at the air gauge...it simply operates better, feels like less turbulence and more volume at the air cap with air regulator to the max.....


    i prefer to paint with setup wide open, pressure approximately regulated at the wall ,more volume of air to atomize fluid,.....i just find it more efficient , works great with waterborne and great with HS clears....

    i hope this sort makes sense "visually" because air gauge at the gun can be seen and at the wall and spray gun regulator...

  15. #60
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    Isn't the gauge on the gun showing the same pressure with the different pressure at the hose?

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