TheCoatingStore.com

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: quarter panel is springy.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Boring Oregon
    Posts
    3,446

    Default quarter panel is springy.

    I had an oil can dent in my quarter panel and I worked it out with hammer and dolly, and then used a shrinking disc to bring back down any high spots. Comparing this side with the other side, this side that has been worked is more easily pushed in. I put some evercoat on it to smooth up the wrinkles, but even while block sanding with a 10 inch block, it sometimes springs in from the pressure of sanding. Now I'm concerned that this will be a problem down the road if it springs a few times over the years, will it let go of the filler?
    Do I need to grind this all off and work that panel some more to make is stiffer?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Jon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    44,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    I had an oil can dent in my quarter panel and I worked it out with hammer and dolly, and then used a shrinking disc to bring back down any high spots. Comparing this side with the other side, this side that has been worked is more easily pushed in. I put some evercoat on it to smooth up the wrinkles, but even while block sanding with a 10 inch block, it sometimes springs in from the pressure of sanding. Now I'm concerned that this will be a problem down the road if it springs a few times over the years, will it let go of the filler?
    Do I need to grind this all off and work that panel some more to make is stiffer?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Jon
    Depending on the shape of the panel and the location of the problem you may be able to put a block against the panel edge and hit the block to drive the metal toward the flexing metal to stiffen it. If that doesn't help then it may pay to drive the metal in on several locations around and on the flexing spot then fill over it.

    Many times the flexing does not come from the metal being stretched but comes from distortion in the surrounding metal which can be driven in or out to help stiffen the flexing metal.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Boring Oregon
    Posts
    3,446

    Default




    This is the panel, it is "soft" or springy right square in the middle of the filler area. So you are saying put a board across the back edge and give her a wack towards the front of the car?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    44,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    This is the panel, it is "soft" or springy right square in the middle of the filler area. So you are saying put a board across the back edge and give her a wack towards the front of the car?
    No, first I would put a 2X4 along that peak above the damage and use a heavy hammer, like a small sledge, to drive it down but don't hit it hard enough to damage the peak. You can also drive it up from the bottom. This may cause some minor damage along the peak that can be repaired once the flexing is stable.

    If you give this a couple wacks and it doesn't seem to be working then stop. Don't get carried away and do more damage than it's worth. As a last resort you may need to drive the metal in slightly over a large area to stabilize it then fill to level it. Shrinking with a torch or better yet with a stud welder is usually the best method if the metal is stretched.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Boring Oregon
    Posts
    3,446

    Default

    I have the stud welder shrinking tip, so maybe I will do that across a few spots to help tighten it up some too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    44,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    I have the stud welder shrinking tip, so maybe I will do that across a few spots to help tighten it up some too.
    If I were doing it with a stud welder I would grind the filler out of the flexing area place the shrink tip in the middle of the problem press and hold the trigger for about 3 to 5 seconds until the metal is glowing then release the trigger but hold pressure on the panel for another 5 or so seconds before moving about an inch or two away from the first spot and repeat the process. I usually start in the middle then move to one side then go around the center increasing the distance from the middle as I do the shrinking.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    324

    Default

    The metal is under uneven tension. It needs to be straightened as much as possible with proper H&D work using a slapper as just one. Doing so will raise the lows and decrease the highs. Then a shrinking disc be used if you find it’s needed; they can be quite successful when used correctly. Using a wide marker like a Sharpie, or dykem on the panel will clearly show lows and highs after running over it lightly with 180 on a block sander or a body file. The file is not used to remove metal, just to show the metal’s appearance.

    The distorted metal is primarily confined within the bodylines above and below which are high crowns; the upper crown being the stronger of the two.
    Hitting the panel with a sledge and block on the bodyline will only introduce additional unwanted stress and distortion into the panel. It may stiffen the panel but not by manipulating the metal in the proper manner. You don’t want add more material to an area where there is already too much.

    Shrinking tips can be used successfully for certain damage, but keep in mind they shrink metal in a small area and may leave the adjacent metal in a stretched state, which is more unwanted, uneven tension. Cooling heated metal will shrink it more than cooling naturally because is alters the molecular structure, which is not always the best choice. Care must be used because causing additional damage is often the result, especially by a novice using a torch.

    I’d suggest going to All Metal Shaping if you want to advance your skills. You’ll find techniques by highly respected craftsmen and masters of the metal trade that will help you tremendously, even on a collision repair like this. People there are building cars and making every panel from scratch.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    216

    Default

    I agree with Len on the part of using a torch , the panel should have been stabilized before plastic was applied , I am old school , heat up a dime to quarter size spot , work it with a hammer and dolly , then quench it fast with a cold wet rag , continue until you have the area solid , 2 wrongs don't make a right Frank
    Last edited by Frank T; 09-03-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    44,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank T View Post
    I agree with Ken on the part of using a torch , the panel should have been stabilized before plastic was applied , I am old school , heat up a dime to quarter size spot , work it with a hammer and dolly , then quench it fast with a cold wet rag , continue until you have the area solid , 2 wrongs don't make a right Frank
    Frank
    Have you tried a shrink tip on a stud welder? It works great, we haven't used the torch in years. No water needed.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Len , sorry about the mix up on your name , to many things going on in the old brain , yes I had a Lenco Spot welder with the big mushroom heads on for shrinking , its OK but with the torch I just go back to old methods , and I believe the fast quenching with the wet rag just tightens it right up , let me tell you this one many moons ago we would make our own slapping spoon , from an old lower leaf spring , roughly 3 in wide and lighter cars had thinner leaves , we left the arch in it , and on the one end heated it with the torch to put a small bend in it to form a handle , work it over a little with a grinder so there was no imperfections in the metal , trim up the handle to suit your liking , it worked like a charm , and then store bought ones came along Frank
    Last edited by Frank T; 09-03-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Boring Oregon
    Posts
    3,446

    Default

    Well, I ground out the plastic today. When I started I didn't think it was as springy as it ended up. I did a bit of a combo of everything that was suggested. The spoon doesn't work so well because the inside of the trunk was sound deadened so it is not very responsive to slapping, no matter how much I tried.
    Once I took off the plastic, I realized it was about 1/8" thick in the middle and the whole panel was rather flat there, rather than being slightly convex or rounded outwards. Anyway, I put the wood along the two body lines and gave her a whack. I also tried to work any highs and lows a bit more than I did before.
    I used some guide coat and was getting it more even, used the shrinking disc on any hammer strikes from inside that were raised, and gave the panel a bit of an outward bow. It still flexes a bit, but comparing it to the center of the door, it flexes under about the same amount of pressure as the door skin, and when blocking to find the high spots, it didn't flex in like before.

    I wish I was as good as some of those metal wizards on the garage journal and all metal shaping sites, but those guys have years of experience and I have this one quarterpanel, but I'm learning.

    So it is about where it belongs, but looks a bit like a sack of marbles, however I think it will smooth right out with no more than 1/8" of plastic filler now. I will fiddle with it a little bit more to try and smooth the peaks a bit, but hopefully I can shoot it with the SPI epoxy primer this weekend and then try the plastic again after that.

    Sorry, but no pics from today, I forgot to take any and left work already.

    Thanks for the help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    The spoon doesn't work so well because the inside of the trunk was sound deadened so it is not very responsive to slapping, no matter how much I tried.
    I wish I was as good as some of those metal wizards on the garage journal and all metal shaping sites, but those guys have years of experience and I have this one quarterpanel, but I'm learning.
    All that undercoating must be removed in order to properly work the panel. Hammers and dollies will not perform correctly otherwise. With willingness and tenacity, simple and proper techniques, and without years of experience you can fix your quarter correctly. Many don't want to learn and cut corners instead, or do things they should not when making repairs.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    44,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
    All that undercoating must be removed in order to properly work the panel. Hammers and dollies will not perform correctly otherwise. With willingness and tenacity, simple and proper techniques, and without years of experience you can fix your quarter correctly. Many don't want to learn and cut corners instead, or do things they should not when making repairs.
    I think a lot of people start out by cutting corners even if they don't mean to cut corners. They gain a lot knowledge by doing the repairs and seeing the result of their repairs then they evolve and get better and cut less corners. I don't do every job to the max, I try to do every job to the level that the car demands. Some deserve gold plating and some don't and it's up to the person doing the work to determine how far they want to take it. The only thing the experienced person can do is tell of their experience.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Boring Oregon
    Posts
    3,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
    All that undercoating must be removed in order to properly work the panel. Hammers and dollies will not perform correctly otherwise. With willingness and tenacity, simple and proper techniques, and without years of experience you can fix your quarter correctly. Many don't want to learn and cut corners instead, or do things they should not when making repairs.

    oh. sigh, I was hoping to avoid that, but I can understand it will be much easier to straighten the panel without that goo on the back holding it where I don't want it to be.

    It's only time I guess. Hopefully that stuff will come off with a stripit disc.

    It's always something on these old cars.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •