TheCoatingStore.com

Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Painting the top of a Hearse...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Question Painting the top of a Hearse...

    Hello everyone;

    I recently came across this forum while searching for information on how to paint with metal flake, and how to paint the top of a hearse.
    I have a few questions that I hope someone can help me out with… This is going to be my first time shooting metal flake, my first time painting a hearse, and my first time painting something this big.

    I want to use two different size metal flakes to do it. The metal flake is being bought from “Lil Daddy Roth’s” website; and he’s getting these sizes: http://www.rothmetalflake.com/brite.html & http://www.rothmetalflake.com/monster.html. It’s hard for me to explain what I am going for, but I want the flakes to have depth, I want them to look like they are floating pretty far above each other. Is there a certain amount of clear coat that should or shouldn’t be used between layers? (Will too much clear coat do damage or make the paint job weak?)

    What size tip(s) do I need? (I’ve found conflicting sizes while searching the net, YouTube, etc.)

    To make the paint have depth, should I use the larger flake on the bottom, smaller flake on top? Perspective wise, I feel like the smaller flake would be better on the bottom followed b the larger flake on the final layers…

    My biggest question, how do I spray the top? What I’ve seen on TV and such is that regular sized cars are painted generally from front to back and vice versa. But the hearse is huge and I don’t know how it would be possible to paint front to back.

    Not to sound stupid also, but I’m 5’2” and will clearly need to be standing on something in order to reach the top, so I can’t see me spraying front to back and being able to move the length of the car and keep the consistency in the spray.

    Can anyone help me out?

    Please and thanks, I appreciate any advice, tips, tricks, etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    40,395

    Default

    I would recommend contacting the supplier of your flake to see what tip size they recommend. My guess is that it will be something like a 1.8 or 2.0 or even 2.8.

    As far as actually doing the spraying I'd say that you might want to build some type of walkway on both sides of the car to allow you to walk from front to back while spraying. Something like 2X12s on top of cinder blocks would do the job, you could use a couple of eight footers on each side with piles of blocks on the ends and in the middle.

    I've never sprayed different size flake so I don't know how it would look best but you may want to have the bottom color slightly darker than the top color so that the top flake will show up better. I'm guessing that no matter how much clear you put in between you won't see much of a floating effect if the flake is all the same color.

    Try not to apply the flake too wet or it will tend to lay down and not give you as much sparkle as a dryer spray would. I would probably spray a ground coat of color then the coarse flake then a couple coats of clear then the finer flake then several more coats of clear then sand and polish after curing. You get a lot more even finish if you dust the flake on rather than trying to apply it like top coat painting. If you use high quality clear it will hold up much better than inexpensive paint.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I would recommend contacting the supplier of your flake to see what tip size they recommend. My guess is that it will be something like a 1.8 or 2.0 or even 2.8.

    As far as actually doing the spraying I'd say that you might want to build some type of walkway on both sides of the car to allow you to walk from front to back while spraying. Something like 2X12s on top of cinder blocks would do the job, you could use a couple of eight footers on each side with piles of blocks on the ends and in the middle.

    I've never sprayed different size flake so I don't know how it would look best but you may want to have the bottom color slightly darker than the top color so that the top flake will show up better. I'm guessing that no matter how much clear you put in between you won't see much of a floating effect if the flake is all the same color.

    Try not to apply the flake too wet or it will tend to lay down and not give you as much sparkle as a dryer spray would. I would probably spray a ground coat of color then the coarse flake then a couple coats of clear then the finer flake then several more coats of clear then sand and polish after curing. You get a lot more even finish if you dust the flake on rather than trying to apply it like top coat painting. If you use high quality clear it will hold up much better than inexpensive paint.
    Thanks for the speedy reply; I appreciate it.

    I just finished emailing them per your suggestion; I’ll post what they say if they reply back to me.

    I think the issue with building a walkway is that the garage at my brother’s house is not quality for painting, and he is planning on renting a booth; I believe he said he found a place that charges $75 per day. I’m not sure that they will allow building a walking structure (even though it would be temporary), or maybe they are wise to this issue and already have a set up to help people out? I’m assuming that building something will be a liability. In reality; they should have something, I can imagine that people must also paint trucks and such. I’m probably stressing out for nothing. I'll ask him to contact them to find out. I text my brother to ask about doing a darker flake under a lighter flake; waiting for a reply.

    On different videos on the internet; I see that they mix the flake with the clear, or, they blow flake after wetting the surface with clear. So to apply it kind of dry, I should spray it down with the clear and then blow the flake over it dry? Or is there another way to make it “not too wet”?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    40,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SA71 View Post
    Thanks for the speedy reply; I appreciate it.

    I just finished emailing them per your suggestion; I’ll post what they say if they reply back to me.

    I think the issue with building a walkway is that the garage at my brother’s house is not quality for painting, and he is planning on renting a booth; I believe he said he found a place that charges $75 per day. I’m not sure that they will allow building a walking structure (even though it would be temporary), or maybe they are wise to this issue and already have a set up to help people out? I’m assuming that building something will be a liability. In reality; they should have something, I can imagine that people must also paint trucks and such. I’m probably stressing out for nothing. I'll ask him to contact them to find out. I text my brother to ask about doing a darker flake under a lighter flake; waiting for a reply.

    On different videos on the internet; I see that they mix the flake with the clear, or, they blow flake after wetting the surface with clear. So to apply it kind of dry, I should spray it down with the clear and then blow the flake over it dry? Or is there another way to make it “not too wet”?
    My limited experience with flake has been to mix it with the clear and spray it in light coats. If you try to make the coating smooth and wet the flake will usually lay too flat so apply it in several light coats with the gun's fan wide open and overlap your passes about 50%.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    My limited experience with flake has been to mix it with the clear and spray it in light coats. If you try to make the coating smooth and wet the flake will usually lay too flat so apply it in several light coats with the gun's fan wide open and overlap your passes about 50%.
    They emailed back! The guy said:
    "Tip size for the Monster Flake would be 2.0 - 2.5, Standard would be a 1.7, but you'll be fine with a 2.0 or 2.5."

    I'm not sure when the car will be ready for paint, and how it's going to be coordinated; but thanks for the advice, I'll put it to good use.

    Pictures to follow as soon as it's done. I think there's some other body work to do (not by me) before I will be painting the top. I haven't been told if I'm painting anything else on it; I guess I should ask!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    24,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SA71 View Post
    Hello everyone;

    I recently came across this forum while searching for information on how to paint with metal flake, and how to paint the top of a hearse.
    I have a few questions that I hope someone can help me out with… This is going to be my first time shooting metal flake, my first time painting a hearse, and my first time painting something this big.

    I want to use two different size metal flakes to do it. The metal flake is being bought from “Lil Daddy Roth’s” website; and he’s getting these sizes: http://www.rothmetalflake.com/brite.html & http://www.rothmetalflake.com/monster.html. It’s hard for me to explain what I am going for, but I want the flakes to have depth, I want them to look like they are floating pretty far above each other. Is there a certain amount of clear coat that should or shouldn’t be used between layers? (Will too much clear coat do damage or make the paint job weak?)

    What size tip(s) do I need? (I’ve found conflicting sizes while searching the net, YouTube, etc.)

    To make the paint have depth, should I use the larger flake on the bottom, smaller flake on top? Perspective wise, I feel like the smaller flake would be better on the bottom followed b the larger flake on the final layers…

    My biggest question, how do I spray the top? What I’ve seen on TV and such is that regular sized cars are painted generally from front to back and vice versa. But the hearse is huge and I don’t know how it would be possible to paint front to back.

    Not to sound stupid also, but I’m 5’2” and will clearly need to be standing on something in order to reach the top, so I can’t see me spraying front to back and being able to move the length of the car and keep the consistency in the spray.

    Can anyone help me out?

    Please and thanks, I appreciate any advice, tips, tricks, etc.
    I believe that the larger flake should be on the bottom and the smaller flake should be on the top. I also think that you should use the same color flake. If you want even more depth, try a silver or a gold flake, as a base over a LIKE colored ground coat, then should shoot a candy apple color over the flakes. ( Same color candy, but with a varying number of coats ) Say, 2 coats over the ( first ) larger flake, then 3 or 4 more coats over the top, smaller flake. That would give the bottom, larger flake 5 or 6 overall coats; hence it would be slighter darker. That would contribute to the illusion of depth.

    You really need to use a siphon feed gun with a ball bearing in the bottom of the cup to keep the flake in suspension. A 2.0 tip should work fine. If you have an old Binks #7 gun and can purchase a tip set that is at least a 2.0, it should work fine. The Binks #7 originally came with a 1.8 tip set.

    If you try to use a gravity feed gun, the flake will clog.
    Here's a site that has smaller flake ...... http://www.tcpglobal.com/Customshop/ksflake.aspx

    Don't pick the .002 size flake. It's very, very tiny.
    LS6

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LS6 View Post
    I believe that the larger flake should be on the bottom and the smaller flake should be on the top. I also think that you should use the same color flake. If you want even more depth, try a silver or a gold flake, as a base over a LIKE colored ground coat, then should shoot a candy apple color over the flakes. ( Same color candy, but with a varying number of coats ) Say, 2 coats over the ( first ) larger flake, then 3 or 4 more coats over the top, smaller flake. That would give the bottom, larger flake 5 or 6 overall coats; hence it would be slighter darker. That would contribute to the illusion of depth.

    You really need to use a siphon feed gun with a ball bearing in the bottom of the cup to keep the flake in suspension. A 2.0 tip should work fine. If you have an old Binks #7 gun and can purchase a tip set that is at least a 2.0, it should work fine. The Binks #7 originally came with a 1.8 tip set.

    If you try to use a gravity feed gun, the flake will clog.
    Here's a site that has smaller flake ...... http://www.tcpglobal.com/Customshop/ksflake.aspx

    Don't pick the .002 size flake. It's very, very tiny.
    LS6
    Thanks for the advice; I’m going to get some scrap metal to practice. I think my brother is planning on using silver and blue flake. The body is going to be some shade of royal blue so the flake will need to match into that. I’m sure that he is set on getting the flake from “Lil Roth” site, for sentimental reasons.

    I’ve also read up on gravity vs. siphon and the bearings issue. I haven’t found a siphon gun yet though, but I did tell my brother that I need to get a new gun because the other two that I have are gravity feed. When I bought the guns, I never anticipated shooting flake.

    I looked at the guns on the tcpglobal link that you provided (as well as the flake); there is a lot of options… I’m on the browse right now for a Binks #7 with a tip set; so far no good luck.

    I think I will get the practice flake from the tcpglobal site; they have smaller amounts for cheap.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by SA71; 09-30-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    24,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SA71 View Post
    Thanks for the advice; I’m going to get some scrap metal to practice. I think my brother is planning on using silver and blue flake. The body is going to be some shade of royal blue so the flake will need to match into that. I’m sure that he is set on getting the flake from “Lil Roth” site, for sentimental reasons.

    I’ve also read up on gravity vs. siphon and the bearings issue. I haven’t found a siphon gun yet though, but I did tell my brother that I need to get a new gun because the other two that I have are gravity feed. When I bought the guns, I never anticipated shooting flake.

    I looked at the guns on the tcpglobal link that you provided (as well as the flake); there is a lot of options… I’m on the browse right now for a Binks #7 with a tip set; so far no good luck.

    I think I will get the practice flake from the tcpglobal site; they have smaller amounts for cheap.

    Thanks!

    -Amber
    Don't consider a gun from TCP Global. They're too expensive. Len Stuart can get you a better deal on a #7 Binks, than they can. For larger flake, a # 39 tip set would be perfect. ( I believe it's either a 2.0 or a 2.2 mm ) However, the gun comes with a 36 SD or SK setup as stock. The #39 set up will probably have to be ordered separate.
    LS6

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    40,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LS6 View Post
    Don't consider a gun from TCP Global. They're too expensive. Len Stuart can get you a better deal on a #7 Binks, than they can. For larger flake, a # 39 tip set would be perfect. ( I believe it's either a 2.0 or a 2.2 mm ) However, the gun comes with a 36 SD or SK setup as stock. The #39 set up will probably have to be ordered separate.
    LS6
    DeVilbiss purchased Binks a couple years ago and I don't think they make the Binks 7 any longer. Some warehouses may still have them but you would probably be better off buying a DeVilbiss siphon feed gun so that you could get parts should you ever need them. DeVilbiss has always made a better gun and that's probably why Binks is no longer in business by themselves and is now a subsidiary of DeVilbiss. The warehouses that I deal with have some parts available but they may disappear as time passes.

    For the same or less money you can purchase much better guns than the Binks 7.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    DeVilbiss purchased Binks a couple years ago and I don't think they make the Binks 7 any longer. Some warehouses may still have them but you would probably be better off buying a DeVilbiss siphon feed gun so that you could get parts should you ever need them. DeVilbiss has always made a better gun and that's probably why Binks is no longer in business by themselves and is now a subsidiary of DeVilbiss. The warehouses that I deal with have some parts available but they may disappear as time passes.

    For the same or less money you can purchase much better guns than the Binks 7.
    This gun comes with the tip sizes needed for the Monster flake; according to the PDF they emailed me from Lil Daddy, the 2.2 will shoot the flake although 3.0 tip is recommended.

    Would this do the job?

    http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com...ontent62833-lt

    It's too late to check the prices today locally, but I see I can get it either in Bend, OR, or in Portland, OR.

    Are you able to get that same gun (if it's a good deal) through your warehouse connections Mr. Len?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LS6 View Post
    Don't consider a gun from TCP Global. They're too expensive. Len Stuart can get you a better deal on a #7 Binks, than they can. For larger flake, a # 39 tip set would be perfect. ( I believe it's either a 2.0 or a 2.2 mm ) However, the gun comes with a 36 SD or SK setup as stock. The #39 set up will probably have to be ordered separate.
    LS6
    They did have some crazy prices; I was assuming that they must be some awesome quality or something!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •