Can u pls review my wish to use Lacquer & suggest alternatives..

[Carrameow]

Can u pls review my wish to use Lacquer & suggest alternatives..
(1) I realize as a beginner ready to make tons of mistakes that I need to be very patient and do this car panel by panel over a period of 2 or 3 months. Because of that I need to do it at my house. In order to do it there,I need to use the most environmentally friendly paint that I can. If I do it at my house, I can make my mistakes, back off, take a break, ask questions, strip and start over.

(2) The fact that Lacquer can be wetsanded and buffed attracts me as a beginner terrified of runs and bad gun strokes.

(3) I know Lacquer doesnt last long but pls remember this is a learning job for me. My car is an 85 Mercedes with 350,000 miles on it. If my paint job last 3 years I will be overjoyed! Lacquer simplifies the mistakes I can make and will at least allow me to learn the basics of shooting, sanding and buffing.
Something more advanced like Basecoat clearcoat would greatly increase my chance of making mistakes.

(4) Can someone please review my reasoning? I still would like to do a good job. When I redid the welding of my floorboards (rusted out) I disliked my first two months work, cut it out and went and cut the floorboards out of another car at a junkyard and welded those in. It took me six months...

(5) If not lacquer, is there another choice? of Paint like acrylic enamel?

At this point I have made up my mind to at least Prime my car at my house. That alone will teach me a lot. I just cant use Urethane where I live, or anything overly ISO or toxic. In that case I can only go either use the MAACO route or the 2 day approach at someone's Paintbooth I would rent, which would come out terrible because of my inexperience....

[Roch_Greg]

1) I painted my first car using a BC/CC Urethane system at my house and friends of mine who have re-finished cars for years said it looked great, except for my crappy body work. It is that easy to use.

It is also as environmentally friendly as automotive paints get. That is to say no automotive re-finish paint is going to be, well Green, for lack of a better term. Which is why they are meant to be applied in a controlled environment (read paint booth).

Think about it, if Lacquer based paints were so good and eco friendly why did the industry move away from them?

It's just as easy to repair a mistake in a BC/CC system as it would be with Lacquer. You can sand defects in the base and either re-apply more or depending on the mistake just proceed to the Clear Coat (after cleaning appropriately).

In fact I think almost every one makes mistakes when painting regardless of the type. Knowing how to take care of it is what matters, along with how to prevent it from happening again

2) This makes no sense. You can wetsand and buff just about any type of automotive paint.

3) No it won't? Who told you that? Look around these and other forums at people who've painted their own cars.

4) That's a good work ethic to have.

5) From what I've read and heard, acrylic enamel is very difficult for first timers to spray and needs to be done in a controlled environment. Someone may correct me though.

If you can tell me/us why you can't shoot urethane where you live then maybe it help to understand.

Personally I think your making too much of this (I mean no offense). No matter which type of paint you choose to use your going to have environmental issues to overcome when working out of your garage.

No matter what paint type you chose to use your also going to have issues that may need to be addressed. Automotive re-finishing while not rocket science, is a little complicated at first. Till you learn about it.


Good Luck

Greg

[X711]

Lots of folks have given you good advice so far.

Honestly, your best and cheapest route on that car is have Macco or other do it.

You are not at a point from a technical standpoint of knowing what to do. I know you are just jonesing to paint something and thats fine but the end game
is to get that merc done.

Take it to the paint shop. Further down the road you can revisit your painting
ambitions.

><

[stealth1]

In all reality painting Lacquer will not help you learn to paint when Lacquer is no longer used in the painting world and is a completely different painting style compared to Urethane or bc/cc paint jobs.

I think you need to see what everyone is telling you bc/cc is the way to go even for learning to paint. The biggest part is getting your basecoat on smooth and without stripes then if you screw up the clear it can be sanded and buffed smooth.

Actually if cost is a factor then just let Macco apply a good single stage Urethane after you prep the car and in the long run (not having all the materials for painting) it would be cheaper.

[AlexeiVT]

I've held off thus far on engaging in this thread...but my feeling is, if you really want to take a stab at painting, then just go for it.

Admittedly, certainly having the confidence to do the task at hand (prior to actually doing it), is certainly the largest hurdle to overcome.

Every painter had to start somewhere...and when it comes to the first shoot, don't look at it from the perspective that you're doomed to failure since you've never attempted it before.

Rather, approach it from the notion that not only do you now have better equipment, better materials, and MUCH more importantly, better and easier access to the learning lessons of those who have come before you to learn from their recommendations and experience (keeping in mind at the same time to maintain a level head, as each individual's experienece is unique).

THIS IS THE PLACE for encouragement for novices to gain the confidence from those more experienced, to take the plunge.

REMEMBER...and put into perspective...this first paint job should not be a Tri-color 3 stage pearl, or a candy color, award winning paint job (also, don't forget that a great many factory paint jobs done w/ robots, aren't all that worthy of high accolades w/ orange peel and tiger striping on metallics).

Consider this...how many people that have NEVER painted a car...what was THEIR attitude toward the first attempt?

If you're after the personal satisfaction of painting your own ride (which I personally rank as pretty cool) then take the panel approach you are after, before absolutely deciding to take it elsewhere for the full paint.

Priming will yield some sort of indication toward your proficiency/compentency toward the endeavor...if the priming (which can comparatively be easily corrected if going awry) goes well, then a decent paint job should follow.

If the general process isn't suited to you...then that's the time to start considering the alternatives...some people get this naturally at the get go, some struggle miserably bit learn from their mistakes and can correct them, some figure it's just not for them...in any case, the only way to find out (if painting is what you want to try and succeed at) is to DO...panel painting w/ solid colors gives you a greater chance at that.

As far as lacquer goes...environmental friendliness is a multifaceted thing...true, lacquer doesn't have ISOs...but, you ARE spraying something w/ high shrinkage due to the fact that most of the thinner evaporates (into the atmosphere) vs. higher solids products that leave more on the surface (provided using a decent gun). Also, to obtain the rather obsolete product these days, in any measurable quantities, defeats any price advantage.

I can speak from my personal first experience...the goal was to prime and paint my '75 Pontiac LeMans w/ metallic blue, as reasonably as possible. The recommendation was to use DuPont single stage, Centari acrylic enamel, w/ a hardener (so it could be colorsanded)...In short, it wasn't perfect, but for the most part, after a cut and buff, I was pleased w/ the outcome.

By the second paint job on the 77 MGB, things were no longer such a mystery (I admit, it's always a little nerve-racking when you're mixing up $100's of material)...but what didn'y come out perfect, could easily be corrected (understanding the shortcomings during spraying)...incedentally, this was also a single stage Raspberry Pearl Metallic single stage DuPont Centari that was later colorsanded and buffed to perfection w/ a non-variable speed Black and Decker grinder/buffer.

There are always the "IDEAL and BEST RECOMMENDED" approaches...then you have to couple that w/ the wisdom and experience of those that have come before you and pioneered things, eventually getting the results they wanted despite a lack of the best of the best (and materials as well as experience lump into that).

If the goal is just to have a painted car, well, there are plenty out there that can do that for you.

If the goal is to do it yourself...only you can decide that...and though true, you will get better with experience (you have to start somwhere)...there is no rule to suggest that your first attempt should be anything less than satisfacory...in this day and age, you have enourmous resoureces at your disposal, to attempt what those prior to to had to do on a whim.

I say, go for it...that's generally been my attitude...and if all else fails, so much for the appreciation of those that seem to make it look so easy.

I'm not saying that there aren't variables to overcome...just saying that with some good research and a positive attitude, you realistically CAN do it yourself...after all, that's why we're basically here, to help you through it rather than say take it elsewhere.

Best of luck!

[Carrameow]

Well I guess I will summon the confidence to try and do the trunk and hood first, so ...and I am stripping them next weekend, and priming them. If I mess up I havent lost much because the sun has turned the trunk and hood into mashed potatoes already(it was painted at the factory with enamel and repainted by someone else with Base Coat/Clearcoat which wasnt color matched and that has peeled badly, almost to bare primer..If i do badly i will just prime them and send them off to Maaco

That being said, whats the best urethane base coat clear coat system for me to use? Can you recommend a specific manufacturer/product line.
Also the best primer...

The car is the silver mercedes in my webpage, its an 85 300D with some messed up paint, it was painted at the factory with enamel and repainted by someone else with Base Coat/Clearcoat which wasnt color matched and that has peeled badly.....I guess I cant go wrong by trying the trunk and hood by taking them off the car they will be easier to spray..

[Phil V]

Carameow. I would not normally offer this advice but you have outlined your situation pretty well. So maybe lacquer in this case is a good choice. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A LACQUER PAINTJOB. If the lacquer is applied correctly and with a little maintenance it will last for many years. Lacquer and acrylic enamel were the paint of choice for close to 30 years and I have done show winning paintjobs with both of those paints. I have to admit that silver metallic is a tough color to start out with regardless of what type paint you use. But I shouldn't take too long to get the hang of it with lacquer paint.
Make sure and clearcoat your lacquer paint with clear lacquer (when you do make sure the humidity is not over 70% or the paint will blush/turn gray).

I agree with the other guys up to a point that acrylic urethane primer and bc/cc are definately the paint of choice these days and the same paints I use almost exclusively. BUT that doesn't mean all other paints are garbage and to be dismissed outright. I did a two tone blue metallic/silver metallic paint job in lacquer with clearcoat on a 1973 Mustang Mach I in 1980 and the car still looks as good today as it did the day he picked the car up (admittedly it spends most of its time covered up in storage but that doesn't change the end result). My point of this whole message is if you choose to spray the car with lacquer then clearcoat it with lacquer you could very well end up with a paintjob that looked better than it did when it left the dealership showroom new. Lacquer is by the far the most user friendly paint available. It just occured to me -- depending on your geographical location you might have problems buying lacquer paint. I think its no longer available in the "left" coast but still very available here in Michigan.

[Jon E]

Judging by this post and some of your others, I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill with this. Paint and body is not rocket science. If you don't believe me, just go to your local body shop and take a look at the guys working there.

Just go buy some cheap 2k primer, base and clear and start spraying. If you make a mistake, then oh well, it's just paint. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. I promise you you'll be amazed at how easy it is once you start doing it.

[Carrameow]

[TimG]

Is there a trade school in your area that offers adult ed. at night?
Schools around here usually let you work on your own stuff,have a booth,and an experianced teacher to guide you.
Omni is a good,inexpensive paint line,basecoat don't cover for squat,you'll need to put on quite a few coats for coverage,or use a different PPG base and the Omni clear.
Jon E.......
Couldn't let this go.......
YOU spend 10 hours a day rolling around on a concrete floor covered w/ bondo dust,and see how YOU look!
If it was EASY,the Girl Scouts would be doing it,this is a hard way to make a living,try replacing a quarter in the 12 to 14 hrs you get paid to do it,or blending in a tri stage door dent for the 2.0 blend within panel the Insurance co. allows!
Sorry,I get defensive sometimes....

[Phil V]

paint and body is not rocket science. If you don't believe me, just go to your local body shop and take a look at the guys working there. (posted by Jon E).

Jon E - what qualifies you to make a statement like that ? What is your background and how many years do you have as a professional autobody/paint technician ?

You should have known that a statement like you posted would would piss off every pro autobody/paint man who reads your post.

[Jon E]

Couldn't let this go.......
YOU spend 10 hours a day rolling around on a concrete floor covered w/ bondo dust,and see how YOU look!
If it was EASY,the Girl Scouts would be doing it,this is a hard way to make a living,try replacing a quarter in the 12 to 14 hrs you get paid to do it,or blending in a tri stage door dent for the 2.0 blend within panel the Insurance co. allows!
Sorry,I get defensive sometimes....

Jon E - what qualifies you to make a statement like that ? What is your background and how many years do you have as a professional autobody/paint technician ?

Haha.

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I've been doing paint and body work professionally for about 8 years now, and yes, I do come home very often covered in primer dust, bondo and many times fiberglass from rolling around on the floor, blocking, painting, cutting and welding all day so I think Im fairly qualified to state my opinions.

The point of my post was that you guys shouldn't worry about this so much. If you make a mistake, you learn from it and go on. Remember, IT'S JUST A CAR.

[Phil V]

Jon, I was hoping you'd say something like that. Its like a member of a family can say something negative about another member of the family BUT no one else can or the the hackles go up. In all honestly I've walked into a couple bodyshops job hunting, saw the people working there, just rolled my eyes and walked right back out. Most body and paint men are intelligent hard working guys with a desire to do top quality work. But there are most definately exceptions to the rule. I've even worked with guys that do bodywork for a living but the sad part is they just don't have what it takes to be a top notch professional autobody or paint man. They never figured out they would be better suited in a different line of work. And I agree with you, there is a certain degree of expertise that takes years to master this trade but we have to be honest with ourselves - we will never find a cure to cancer or save someones life on the operating table, we don't build Rolex watches or Steinway pianos. We take rusted beat up cars and make them look good again - until they rust again or get beat up again. I've found it rewarding for the last 35 years but I don't delude myself or suffer from illusions of grandeur.

[Jon E]

Very well said Phil, I couldn't agree more.

I guess after thousands and thousands of hours of doing this work you stop recognizing the skill that goes into it and only see it as simple busy work. I know I do. Ive worked a few other careers and know many other people whom I hold in high regard for their skill and expertise at what they do, but in my opinion, the paint and body industry just doesn't rank up there with them.

Being a good body man is no different than anything else that takes a little practice. If you have a problem, you just start over and try it again. IT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER LEARN.

I still remember the first time I sprayed a top coat while I was still a shop helper. The painter took me into the booth and walked me through painting a fender on a new Buick. I was like some of the guys on here are and scared to death I was going to make a mistake and get a run or dry-spray it. But when I was done it looked great and I was so surprised at how easy it was. I had built it up in my head to be some monumental task when there really isn't that much to it.

Carrameow, don't worry about a thing, just go for it and have fun.

[Carrameow]

I watched the SPRAY PAINT 101 DVD all afternoon again and again....I'm going to watch it tomorrow again