Polishing has always scared me Questions on Orange Peel

[junk]

This is how the paint turned out on the doors and cab of my crewcab project. Overall I'm happy with how straight the doors turned out. I'm torn on the orange peel. On one hand the clear seems smooth, but the paint seems to have a lot of peel in it. So this has lead me to some questions. First let me state that I did buy roberts video so i think I have a good base for how to color sand this when I finally get ready to do it. I've always played with polishing but it always scares me.

Ok little on the prep. Doors were sanded with 400 wet. I used my tekna when I sprayed epoxy primer/sealer mixed to a sealer right before color then into clear. I'm wondering if my sealer didn't lay as smooth as I thought and that is leading to me thinking the color has the peel not the clear. Would a dedicated sealer lay out smoother? The clear feels and looks smooth.

So will color sanding take out this orange peel? If not then I'm assuming I could sand the clear reapply color and clear and would be good to go?

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[Len]

Yes, that should sand out and polish into a smooth paint job. If all of the peel is in the sealer it could be a problem so you may want to go easy and not try to remove the peel totally but just cut it down a little then polish it to see how it looks. If you want to take it all the way out you have to accept the fact that you may need to apply more base and clear if you sand through the clear coat.

[Henry]

[QUOTE=junk;207832]This is how the paint turned out on the doors and cab of my crewcab project. Overall I'm happy with how straight the doors turned out. I'm torn on the orange peel. On one hand the clear seems smooth, but the paint seems to have a lot of peel in it. So this has lead me to some questions. First let me state that I did buy roberts video so i think I have a good base for how to color sand this when I finally get ready to do it. I've always played with polishing but it always scares me.
Ok little on the prep. Doors were sanded with 400 wet. I used my tekna when I sprayed epoxy primer/sealer mixed to a sealer right before color then into clear. I'm wondering if my sealer didn't lay as smooth as I thought and that is leading to me thinking the color has the peel not the clear. Would a dedicated sealer lay out smoother? The clear feels and looks smooth.

So will color sanding take out this orange peel? If not then I'm assuming I could sand the clear reapply color and clear and would be good to go?

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I'd like to help but to be blunt first, you need to shake that fear or being scared of finishing YOUR paint or just don't do it.
I can understand your "concern" of touching new paint. What the hell, new complete paint is the cleanest any vehicle will ever be. It's ALL one color and big too so why mess with it?

You have to sand before you buff anyway so what do you have to sand with; what grit(s); what do you have for a buffer; what compound will you use?

What do you know about buffing; which pads; do you know what it means to buff "OFF" the panel?
Most importantly, other than your products and tools, is not too look at the WHOLE vehicle but concentrate on an 18" x 18" area at a time. NEVER buff with a DRY pad.

That texture appears (from what we can see) to be able to sand and buff to a nice gloss providing you have enough clear (over 2 coats) and don't sand through. If it were mine, I might start with 800grit finishing film dry. You may want to try one inconspicuous section to get a feel for a result (not the hood).

I seriously think you need some time with your buffer BEFORE you attack the new paint. Do a search on this site for proper buffing. Below is a link of Robert doing his thing from the CLASSROOM section (from the HOME page here). You'll learn a few things from that.
Then I think you should find an oxidezed car to buff to get comfortable with the process and your machine. If no car to do then practice on old fenders or hoods. You need to shake that fear.
Pretty color by the way. Is it a Ford color? You can send me a PM if you want and I'll be glad to help you.

Henry

http://www.autobodystore.com/rsw.shtml

You can leave some orange peel since factory paint has it and some have a lot.

[Henry]

Below is a link to Robert using his buffer. Select the ones you need to see. Henry

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showt...tailing-Videos

[junk]

I ordered Roberts video and have been watching it. I also watched his videos on youtube. So I'm relatively comfortable with the buffing process as he explained it. Roberts techniques in the videos made complete sense to me when watching them. Buffing off the panel made sense.

My plan was to start sanding using my air vantage with an interface pad. I was going to go 800 grit, 1200 grit and then 1500 grit finishing film dry then buff. I'm going to see what my local supplier has for these materials first otherwise I'll order them from Len.

I definitely need to check my buffing pads and compounds before I start doing anything. I'll see what I got at home and post what they are. Then you guys can help me with what will work and what won't.

I've buffed cars lightly before. Typically sanding out a run or bug. I've always stayed away from color sanding the whole vehicle because I didn't really know where to start.

Thanks for the comments Henry and Len. I'll be posting more questions as I keep reading and learning about this. I knew between Roberts video and this sites help I can get this skill under my belt also. This paint is probably 1.5 months old now so it may sand and polish hard, but we'll see. I had a problem with bugs and only did 2 coats of clear. So if I need to add another coat or 2 of clear it won't hurt my feelings, but I would like to sand and buff on it first for practice if nothing else.

It is a ford color Dark Copper from a 2005 king ranch truck. I do really like the color. i still have the bed and front clip to paint so I'll be working on my technique for those panels when the time comes.

Thanks for the comments and there will be more questions. - Jeremy

[another2centsworth]

Don't be scared . Be careful with concern .

With 2 good coats clear you can take a good bit out . With 3 coats clear you can slick it and still have plenty left over for longevity. I would tape the lines with 1/4 in tape and edges with 3/4. I never start more coarse then 1200. If you have peel in the rest of the truck then you want to match it. Start with 1500 dry on a d/a until it (the peel) looks acceptable. Keep the 1500 disc clean. Every minute or so run it lightly on your pants leg for a second. Then 3000 trizac 2-3 passes medium speed medium pressure wet with 50% overlap.. Peel the tape and carefully compound and polish watching those lines and edges. This is where you will cut through.

I like doing all of it in 1500 then to 3000. You might want to go one panel at a time for feel until you get used to the technique.

I like Roberts video. Bought it. Dude must have forearms of steel...lol!

I also have contributed to the site here buy donating money and purchasing from Len's store. Cool place to come.

[xtremekustomz]

This is just personal opinion here and am not really an expert but I like to do my first sanding with a hard block to get everything smooth and flat. I usually hit it with a 1000 by hand but 1200 would probably be better for your first time. Normally I would switch to 1500 then 2000 by hand but since I bought the airvantage sander I go to 1500 (trizact) on it wet and then 3000 (trizact). The trizact paper is expensive but it will last. I know alot of people say to just do 1500 because a compound will take out the scratches which it will but you will have a much nicer finish if you go up to a 3000. Plus you aren't having to worry about burn through from keeping the buffer in one place for too long. Have I ever cut through the clear? Absolutely but that's just part of the learning curve. Look at it this way...you painted the whole truck so if you have to touchup or repaint a panel you can do it. Take your time and try to have fun with it. Some would call me crazy but I actually enjoy doing it. Especially when you stand back and look at what you have done.

[junk]

In Roberts video he said to start with 800 as you need an aggressive grit to flatten the surface then use the finer grits to help remove the deep scratches the 800 left behind. That generally seems to make sense to me. A lot of you are suggesting to start out finer and then finish out with 3000 trizact. I could also see how finishing out with a finer grit will make polishing easier, but does it flatten as well?

Typically what I've done in the past is start out with around 800 or 1000 switch to 1500 then finish out with 2000. I've always done this by hand with a durablocks. I've burned through plenty of clear in the past, but normally that's when I'm sanding out a run. I do have a couple runs to sand out, but I will use the glazing putty trick to sand out my runs and hopefully not burn through.

I'm not trying to get a glass smooth finish on this. I hate peel, yet am Ok with as shot finishes most of the time. New cars have tons of peal in them and I'm good if I can emulate that finish out of the gun for most projects. I do want to be comfortable color sanding though as I've got a couple old cars I want to paint and would be going for a smoother finish.

Here again I'll have to check my paper stocks and see what sand papers I have on hand and then run them by you guys. Might as well use materials I have if they'll work.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[xtremekustomz]

In Roberts video he said to start with 800 as you need an aggressive grit to flatten the surface then use the finer grits to help remove the deep scratches the 800 left behind. That generally seems to make sense to me. A lot of you are suggesting to start out finer and then finish out with 3000 trizact. I could also see how finishing out with a finer grit will make polishing easier, but does it flatten as well?

Typically what I've done in the past is start out with around 800 or 1000 switch to 1500 then finish out with 2000. I've always done this by hand with a durablocks. I've burned through plenty of clear in the past, but normally that's when I'm sanding out a run. I do have a couple runs to sand out, but I will use the glazing putty trick to sand out my runs and hopefully not burn through.

I'm not trying to get a glass smooth finish on this. I hate peel, yet am Ok with as shot finishes most of the time. New cars have tons of peal in them and I'm good if I can emulate that finish out of the gun for most projects. I do want to be comfortable color sanding though as I've got a couple old cars I want to paint and would be going for a smoother finish.

Here again I'll have to check my paper stocks and see what sand papers I have on hand and then run them by you guys. Might as well use materials I have if they'll work.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Yes I would say 800 if you are looking for a show quality finish which you said you are not. You are just wanting to remove some of the orange peel right? I've never used 1200 but I think if you did that your compound will still remove those scratches if you don't get it 100% perfect after sanding with higher grits.

I did this truck a little while back. The orange peel wasn't really all that bad but I sanded with 1000 on a durablock followed by 1500 trizact wet on da then 3000 trizact wet on da.

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After:

[All Dry]

Yes I would say 800 if you are looking for a show quality finish which you said you are not. You are just wanting to remove some of the orange peel right? I've never used 1200 but I think if you did that your compound will still remove those scratches if you don't get it 100% perfect after sanding with higher grits.

I did this truck a little while back. The orange peel wasn't really all that bad but I sanded with 1000 on a durablock followed by 1500 trizact wet on da then 3000 trizact wet on da.

Before:



After:

That looks really good. Mike

[junk]

xtremecustomz that truck looks really nice. Very smooth. I appreciate all the help and comments guys.

Ok I went out and checked what I had. Since I have 1200 and 2000 grit wet papers on hand I'll probably sand this out by hand first, but wouldn't mind getting my sander setup to color sand. I do have 1200 grit sticky back I got with a used sander, but I'm not sure if it could be used for color sanding. Can this be used for color sanding? To color sand you want to use a small orbit like a 3/32" right? If I can use the sticky back 1200 then I would have to use the sticky back pad. Is that Ok?

My polisher is only a 2 speed unit. I'd love to buy a new variable speed unit, but that's not on the priority list for a couple months. I have a yellow foam pad and a wool pad for it. My polish is some Wizards finish cut.

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[Robert]

First, thanks all for the kind words about the video.

If you run into any problems polishing the scratches out, don't worry about it. Just get some 2000 and 2500 grit sandpaper and throw it in a bucket overnight - soaking paper really well makes it cut a lot more uniform. Then, use a soft block and sand again. It should buff out very easily. Keep your buff pad in a plastic zip lock bag when you're not using it and it will stay ready to use when you get back to it.

The initial cut is the one that defines the overall - flatness/distinctness of image - finish on the paint. I would suggest 1200 to start and since it looks like a work truck I wouldn't cut absolutely flat, just say 90% It looks like it could handle more, but keeping paint on the car is a good thing.

Take Care,
Robert

[junk]

Ok guys Tried sanding a fender with 1200 grit trizact and then went to 3000 grit trizact. Where has this been all my life!! Wow that went really well. I've been so scared to burn through, but sanding moderately and watching what I was doing it sanded out beautiful and buffed out nice also. Well for me it turned out great. My buffing has been anything but beautiful in the past. I probably am going to go a little further, but will probably wait until it's all assembled and then it all at the same time. Sorry no pictures yet.

Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.
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[Len]

Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.

The fellow that does my polishing is now addicted to the Sure Finish Orange Pad ( "A" below), he uses them until he wears them out. Also try Wizard's Mystic Cut, this compound is great. If you use the orange pad you need to use it with a 6" backing plate, an 8" backing plate is too big.

LINK


LINK

[Henry]

Ok guys Tried sanding a fender with 1200 grit trizact and then went to 3000 grit trizact. Where has this been all my life!! Wow that went really well. I've been so scared to burn through, but sanding moderately and watching what I was doing it sanded out beautiful and buffed out nice also. Well for me it turned out great. My buffing has been anything but beautiful in the past. I probably am going to go a little further, but will probably wait until it's all assembled and then it all at the same time. Sorry no pictures yet.

Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.

JUNK, I was gonna mention those OP sides but didn't want you to think I was criticising you. I would not finalize the sides at this time. I say that because you're been painting the nose OFF the truck and I would hold off with the perfection of the sides until I could make sure there is a match.

I 'second' that ORANGE pad from the Sure Finish collection. All those pads were very well researched before put on the site for sale. The ORANGE is unique (even difficult to burn paint with). I doubt anyone else offers such a pad. Take you time as you can see the finish line coming up.

Henry