painting from the metal up...

[400bird]

hey guys im new here and figured what better way to say hello that ask a really really long question?
oh and i just ordered the painting 101 video, and will watch it as soon as it gets here

so i have a 67 firebird, that i am working on painting
i has way to much paint on it, the factory primer and paint, then someone painted it yellow, then blue, and when i got it the blue was pealing off and i could not look at it, so i rattle canned the thing flat black to drive for a year
this is just so you guys understand why i am taking it down to bare metal

one thing i noticed was that the chemical stripper would tear through everything but the factory stuff, and it turned the yellow paint into a liquid, instead of it bubbling up like the blue and my primer

i already took all the removable sheet metal (including doors) down to metal, fixed the 2 rust holes and welded up the emblem holes i didnt want, used wax and grease remover then 'metal cleaner' dx579 and primed these panels
and today i plan to start stripping the body of the car

i would like some direction on what primers to use and if i made any mistakes
on the front end sheet metal
i used evercoats feather fill G2, i read everything i could on the can and it said that i could spray it right over bare metal
and i am hoping i can use filler over top of it (i have evercoat's rage gold)
i really dont want to take that primer off, but i am more than willing to change how i do the rest of the car

thanks
Jon

[ZRX61]

Epoxy primer, then mud, then sandable primer etc, assuming you don't want to get the dents out when it's bare metal.

[CDJr]

Ya, when I stripped my 68 Bird down to metal, the factory paint was MUCH tougher to get off than the coat that someone had put on it too. But that aircraft stripper eventually got it off (You DID use aircraft stripper, right?) You usually wanna use all paints and primers from the same maufacturer, as a rule of thumb. I use PPG paints and Evercoat Rage filler and starting with bare metal, I spray epoxy primer, then use filler, then epoxy primer, then high-build primer, then sealer (I use reduced epoxy primer), then topcoats. But its just a matter of preference...others have different methods, Im sure.

[ZRX61]

I spray epoxy primer, then use filler, then epoxy primer, then high-build primer, then sealer (I use reduced epoxy primer), then topcoats.

Pretty much the same, but I omit the epoxy after the mud/before the high-build.. as I have a preference for white epoxy & gray high-build (depending on final color of course). my next paint job will be (mostly) black, white, silver, flat black, dark blue & olive green.

[CDJr]

I just use epoxy over the filler so that its totally encased in epoxy and less vulnerable to any moisture, etc. Ive never tried the white epoxy, I use black (DP90) and usually gray high-build.

[Len]

I just use epoxy over the filler so that its totally encased in epoxy and less vulnerable to any moisture, etc. Ive never tried the white epoxy, I use black (DP90) and usually gray high-build.

Actually the epoxy (in most cases) would do little to stop any moisture getting to the metal or filler. If moisture was going to get to the metal what would it go through? The top coat? A place where the paint was chipped?

It's good to have the epoxy primer sprayed before the paint if you need a sealer but if a sealer is not needed you could take it or leave it. About the only time moisture and epoxy primer come together is when a car is primed then sits in the weather OR if moisture can come through the metal via a seam but other than that it won't do much repel or protect from moisture.

[400bird]

ok so pretty much everyone recomends epoxy primer, filler then sandable primer like the feather fill i used first

but do you guys expect me to have problems with using the feather fill first, then filler then more feather fill?

and what do you recomend for an epoxy primer so that i can do it the rigth way on the body of the car?

[400bird]

well i got some epoxy primer from my local finish masters today
its ppg DP50LF
there is a sticker that looks like they stuck it on there it reads:
PRECOAT
Must be followed by
2.1 VOC Primer
25% by volume of primer

im hoping that the evercoat feather fill G2 fits into the '2.1 VOC' category, i dont know what that is, could someone please help explain this to me?

and it is a non-sanding primer, i was planning on laying the filler over it, i can still scuff it so that the filler will stick right?

and sorry for all the new guy questions, im still waiting for the video...

[400bird]

anyone? please help

[TimG]

As I remember,and it's been a long time since I used it,FeatherFill isn't supposed to go over any other primer.
Somewhere on this board should be a link to the PPG "Psheets" product info from PPG on what does/doesn't go w/what product.
Good luck!

[Len]

ok so pretty much everyone recomends epoxy primer, filler then sandable primer like the feather fill i used first

but do you guys expect me to have problems with using the feather fill first, then filler then more feather fill?

and what do you recomend for an epoxy primer so that i can do it the rigth way on the body of the car?

Feather Fill is quite similar to body filler so applying body filler on top is ok IF you scratched the FF first with a coarse grit that would allow the body filler to grab on.

If you just get any name brand epoxy primer you should be ok. DuPont, PPG, BASF/RM, Sikkens etc.

[SCHOONER]

Hi Guys

I definetly a newie with painting my car. I'm just surfing and trying to learn from the pro's.

Can you guys take me to school somewhat :rolleyes:

Here's some the the toughest questions for me to ask.
Please have patience with this new kid.
Whatever help you can give me as to answering these questions will be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Here I go. I will be painting my car with your help of course.The color will be: TAHOE TURQUIOSE with some metal flakes in it. I want to have a very high gloss on the paint job. I think I'm suppose to use several coats of clear.
But you tell me. I'm here to listen and apply what you suggest.


1. Just what is the proper way to take the paint down to the metal ?
(Is there a proper grit to use on my DeWalt? Don't want to leave
deep scratches now do I ? )

2. O.K. the metal is looking at me, all shiny and new. Repairs are made. Now
what? ( do I use a epoxy primer now? And which one would be best?)

3. Now do I hit it was a SEALER?

4. When do I wet sand ?

* BEAR WITH ME GUYS

To make it short and not the novel its becoming. Here's the final questions.

5. IN JUST WHAT ORDER DO I DO THE JOB; FROM FIRST TO LAST PLEASE.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH
GOD BLESS YOU GUYS

Schooner :cool:

[400bird]

im going to try and give you some answers but i hope that someone here corrects me if i give you some false information

well from what little i have learned here is that when painting from bare metal up the first step is an epoxy primer

i used some chemical stripper to get all the hard to get places and large surfaces down mostly to metal then 80 grit on the DA, then some wax and grease remover, then exopy

but they sell a DVD here that shows the basics from begining to end, but i dont have my copy yet.
you might want to get the DVD also

[Len]

Here, I added a few comments.

im going to try and give you some answers but i hope that someone here corrects me if i give you some false information

well from what little i have learned here is that when painting from bare metal up the first step is an epoxy primer

Etch primer is also good but there are a few more variables with etch that's why we usually recommend epoxy primer for novice painters.

i used some chemical stripper to get all the hard to get places and large surfaces down mostly to metal then 80 grit on the DA, then some wax and grease remover, then exopy

80 Grit on a DA takes a long time, the fast method is 80 grit on a variable speed sander/buffer. You can sand off the paint at the beginning of the job and, using the same machine, you can polish the paint at the end of the job.

but they sell a DVD here that shows the basics from begining to end, but i dont have my copy yet.
you might want to get the DVD also

[Roch_Greg]

SCHOONER:

You got some good answers already. A step by step approach would be to

Prep (pre sanding)

1) Wash entire car with your average everyday car shampoo and dry. Don't use one that contains wax or any type of paint protection.

2) Use a good silicone/wax remover (prep-sol or the like). Don't try and get the entire panel at once, you'll just be moving the contaminats around. Do like a 2 x 2 area at a time, wipe on, wipe off with a clean towel.

I've been using Hi-Temp's Akrya Klean lately for this as I can apply it right after I wash the car. let it setup a few minutes then rinse off. No need to bother with Prep-Sol/Towels/ and that stinky chemically smell.

Note that the contaminans are going to go into the towels, as they have no place else left. So use plenty of towels. Also note than sanding alone won't remove these contaminants and you don't want them lurking about later on in the re-finishing process.

3) Remove the existing paint using a rotary polisher. These babies can get up to 3000 rpm's and will make short work of the exisiting finish. You can start at 80 grit or something lower then follow up with 80 to level out the lower grit scratches.

Len sells some disks (Norton I think) that are made for just this type of task.

4) You will need to clean and condition the metal afterwards. That bare sheet metal will start to flash rust very quickly even from the moisture of you touching it.

Depending on how your work flow is, you can clean and protect the newly exposed metal from flash rust in a couple of ways.

4a) Clean/treat the metal then immediately shoot some Primer (etch or Epoxy) on the panels.

or if your not going to be ready for primering just yet

4b) Clean/treat the metal with Picklex-20. This stuff will allow you to leave the metal exposed (indoors) without it rusting for quite some time and just needs to be scuffed before applying primer (do not use an etching primer)

5) From here you can handle your metal/body work. Then prime. Some say prime then fill others say fill then prime. I won't enter into that debate.

Greg