1500 grit finishing film on DA

[xtremekustomz]

Ran over the new black paint with some 1000 grit wet on a 9" sanding block. Went over the top of that with some 1500 grit finishing film with interface pad and da sander. I then followed that with trizact 3000 wet via da. I started buffing with Meg's M105 with a wool pad. There seem to be quite a few pig tails left over by the finishing film. I'm able to get them out after 4 or 5 passes. Is this normal with this process? Also it seems to take quite a bit of paper to sand like this. I feel like I could have done this faster by just wet sanding with 1500, then 2000 then buff. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

[Len]

Ran over the new black paint with some 1000 grit wet on a 9" sanding block. Went over the top of that with some 1500 grit finishing film with interface pad and da sander. I then followed that with trizact 3000 wet via da. I started buffing with Meg's M105 with a wool pad. There seem to be quite a few pig tails left over by the finishing film. I'm able to get them out after 4 or 5 passes. Is this normal with this process? Also it seems to take quite a bit of paper to sand like this. I feel like I could have done this faster by just wet sanding with 1500, then 2000 then buff. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

The Finishing Film can cause pig tails depending on the amount of dust nibs, paint hardness, DA action and age of the paper. Black is very critical, I would use 1500 Trizact clear coat disks wet first then go over it with the 3000 grit Trizact wet, you won't get nearly as many pig tails.

LINK

[Rinker91]

[QUOTE=Len;200787]The Finishing Film can cause pig tails depending on the amount of dust nibs, paint hardness, DA action and age of the paper. Black is very critical, I would use 1500 Trizact clear coat disks wet first then go over it with the 3000 grit Trizact wet, you won't get nearly as many pig tails.

LINK

[/QUOTE

This is what I use as well. I got pigtails no matter what I did. I was able to reduce them by keeping the Trizact wet and checking it often for particals that were stuck to the paper. I was after dust nibs in the finish. I could not keep the pigtails from appearing and I also could not buff out the 3000 grit pass on the panels. No matter what I did, I could not get that Haze out of it. Very Frustrating and time consuming. I like to paint black but I hate, hate, hate to cut and polish it.
My quest for a good compound and polish for black paint continues.

[Jayson M]

A larger throw sander like a 3/8 actually works better with trizact vs the shorter throw.....I never believed it until I tried it.

[Robert]

But it might be that the jumps were just to big - 1000 wet to 1500  is fine if you use the disks Len recommended wet but the jump to 3000 was probably too much unless you took more time and like one of the other posters said used a 3/8 inch throw sander.

Cutting with 2000 first wouldn't have given you the same result because the 2000 would have rolled over/mimiced the orange peel.  Personally, I'm not a fan of 105 so I'd suggest trying something else.

Robert

[xtremekustomz]

Yeah I'm thinking of just going back to my normal way of doing things. As for the 105 I heard good reviews on it. I've still got some 3m 05933 left over from a LONG time ago. Hopefully I haven't cut down too far into the clearcoat where all this buffing is going to burn through. I've sanded a whole side and the hood so far. The rest will be blocked by hand for sure. Anybody need some 1500 grit finishing film? I ordered it and it came in last Tuesday. I think I have 87 sheets left of the 100.

[Len]

Yeah I'm thinking of just going back to my normal way of doing things. As for the 105 I heard good reviews on it. I've still got some 3m 05933 left over from a LONG time ago. Hopefully I haven't cut down too far into the clearcoat where all this buffing is going to burn through. I've sanded a whole side and the hood so far. The rest will be blocked by hand for sure. Anybody need some 1500 grit finishing film? I ordered it and it came in last Tuesday. I think I have 87 sheets left of the 100.

You're the first person that I know of that went back to hand sanding after color sanding with a DA. It's so much faster and easier using a machine that we would never think of going back to hand sanding. We get some pig tails with the Finishing Film but sanding with 3000 usually removes them but most of our sanding is done with 1500 wet Trizact and we get very few (if any) pig tails. We remove dust nibs before we begin the DA sanding so that may be why we don't have a pig tail problem. You could also try using the Finishing Film wet to see if it helps.

[Robert]

Yeah I'm thinking of just going back to my normal way of doing things. As for the 105 I heard good reviews on it. I've still got some 3m 05933 left over from a LONG time ago. Hopefully I haven't cut down too far into the clearcoat where all this buffing is going to burn through. I've sanded a whole side and the hood so far. The rest will be blocked by hand for sure. Anybody need some 1500 grit finishing film? I ordered it and it came in last Tuesday. I think I have 87 sheets left of the 100.

If you had some of the clear coat disks I'd sure take them off your hands. The only way you should get pigtails with them is if you sand over dirt, the water keeps the pills from forming. I did a complete colorsand on a classic Mercedes in one day a week ago using that stuff and it came out better than the client had the ability to appreciate - more work - more work - more money!

Robert

[JCCLARK]

running the sander at about half speed seems to really help
for me.

[xtremekustomz]

Ok. So on top of the pig tails my buffer just gave out lol. Only one I could find locally was DeWalt so hopefully it will last me for a while. As for the trizact sanding discs. I bought a 25 pk of P1500 to try. They were like $50. Model number 02088. Are you guys wet sanding with these? Also I'm able to get the pigtails out with some 3m compound and a putting more pressure as I'm buffing with a wool pad. It's leaving behind swirls but I am going to go back over with the Meguiars M105. It seems to finish out really nicely. Then over that I've got some 3m or either the Meg's 205. I will have to see which finishes best.

[style]

Ok. So on top of the pig tails my buffer just gave out lol. Only one I could find locally was DeWalt so hopefully it will last me for a while. As for the trizact sanding discs. I bought a 25 pk of P1500 to try. They were like $50. Model number 02088. Are you guys wet sanding with these? Also I'm able to get the pigtails out with some 3m compound and a putting more pressure as I'm buffing with a wool pad. It's leaving behind swirls but I am going to go back over with the Meguiars M105. It seems to finish out really nicely. Then over that I've got some 3m or either the Meg's 205. I will have to see which finishes best.

sounds to me like your doing everything you can wrong and its not your fault,3m kindly gives directions on everything but the sand paper they sell,give this a try..

you need to go in these exact steps otherwise you may encourage clearcoat failure,

step away from the car go eat an ice cream sandwich

get a spray bottle and add one cap of dish soap the rest water,the point in this is the dish soap will not let the surface dry out as quickly..

take a screw driver and run it over your wool pad to remove any debris,

spray down one panel then wipe it clean with blue disposable shop papertowels,

spray your surface down in 3ftx3ft area this is to establish a test area,

now sray your 1500 grit while its on your da get it dripping wet,this helps the dirt not to stick to your paper and helps eliminate pig tails/dirt by rinsinge it away from your paper and surface as it comes loose,

now sand that area for 30 seconds at a time and keep drying it an checking it,your trying to establish a process after you see how long it will take this method is no longer needed,

once it looks smooth get your compound and put some on the fender/panel go lowest speed till its worked into the pad then click it up 2 knoches you should now have a nice even surface full of swirl marks,now take a black foam pad and do the same with the same chemicals this makes your swirls easier to remove later by making them smaller remember swirl marks are created by heat on your last pass go at the lowest speed posible and use the middle of the pad not the edge..

if you have any other questions feel free to p.m. me...

this car was buffed useing that method above followed by a makita bo6040 with same black pad useing sure finish..



keep in mind the customer in the pic was a broke ass so i made him do all the sanding i buffed it then he removed the residue..

[xtremekustomz]

Well the new buffer is helping quite a bit. My last one was a cheap one but it got me by for a few years. I'm able to get all the swirls out with a maroon meguiars pad with their m105. Either way I'm still going to run over it with a finer polish via my pc. Thanks for the tip on the sanding. The trizact looks/feels different from any sand "paper" I've ever used. I bought a trizact 3000 grit foam disc from Advance Auto and it works really well wet. They quit making them though. Go figure. I will post up some pictures when I get closer to being done. I've sanded/buffed the hood and whole driver side. Still got to go back over it with the foam pad.

[xtremekustomz]

I think I went through 6 sheets of the finishing film 600 on the DA yesterday doing one side of the truck. Only used 1 sheet of the Trizact 1500 wet on the DA. Worth every penny.

[Rinker91]

I think I went through 6 sheets of the finishing film 600 on the DA yesterday doing one side of the truck. Only used 1 sheet of the Trizact 1500 wet on the DA. Worth every penny.

OK, I'm convinced now that I'm doing something wrong. Trizact for me doesn't last near that long. I'm lucky to cut a fender and half a door before the disc hits the scrap bin.
I can't get the finish to come back where you can't see any hazing from the sander. I'm using Presta Ultra Cutting Cream, Presta Aurora Polish to remove the cutting cream swirls (forget the actual name on bottle) and the Aurora hand glaze. I'm using a wool pad, White and Black foam pads on a Makita. I don't get it... Slow or fast, doesn't matter. Same result and its unacceptable for me to give it back to customer without it looking perfect.
I can bring back any other color but black.

[Len]

I think I went through 6 sheets of the finishing film 600 on the DA yesterday doing one side of the truck. Only used 1 sheet of the Trizact 1500 wet on the DA. Worth every penny.

600 is very coarse we usually start with 1500 unless we have a problem.