How to best remove surface rust before Epoxy primer

[another2centsworth]

Who sells Black acid free epoxy primer? Is DP40 acid free? Thanks

Google Kirker Enduro Epoxy Primer. Several online stores that sell it.

[merbesfield]

When I need black epoxy primer I use RM EP769, it works well over treated metal.

Thanks Len, that is exactly what I used last on the 912 so I will get the black version for the 356, which I will have a black finish coat. Probably will go Glasurit Line 22. Thanks again.

[Len]

Thanks Len, that is exactly what I used last on the 912 so I will get the black version for the 356, which I will have a black finish coat. Probably will go Glasurit Line 22. Thanks again.

When using Glasurit 22 Line paint it doesn't matter what color the primer is because it covers so well. Two or three coats of 22 Line will do the trick over any good primer.

[merbesfield]

When using Glasurit 22 Line paint it doesn't matter what color the primer is because it covers so well. Two or three coats of 22 Line will do the trick over any good primer.

That's good to know. My reason for the black is that I may just drive the car a while in primer and it would look better black than grey. I know primer is primer, but how long can you leave black epoxy primer uncoated if it is only driven a couple of times a month and stored in doors?

[Len]

That's good to know. My reason for the black is that I may just drive the car a while in primer and it would look better black than grey. I know primer is primer, but how long can you leave black epoxy primer uncoated if it is only driven a couple of times a month and stored in doors?

A good epoxy primer will hold up well for quite awhile but it will need to be sanded and reapplied once you're out of the recoat window time. The primer will tend to chalk up from exposure to the sun but that's not a problem if it's stored indoors and isn't exposed to long periods of sunlight.

[merbesfield]

Well after hours of working with Picklex20 and a wire wheel the results were less than excellent to say the least. I took a few minutes and built a quick plastic tent and blasted for one minute. Sand blasting is a mess, but no doubt about the results. The only way to get it right is blast it. So that is what I will do, followed by some good epoxy primer. The first two pics are after hours of chemical rust removal, the second two after one minute of blasting. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Len]

Well after hours of working with Picklex20 and a wire wheel the results were less than excellent to say the least. I took a few minutes and built a quick plastic tent and blasted for one minute. Sand blasting is a mess, but no doubt about the results. The only way to get it right is blast it. So that is what I will do, followed by some good epoxy primer. The first two pics are after hours of chemical rust removal, the second two after one minute of blasting. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Were you expecting the Picklex to REMOVE the rust? It doesn't do that but if you get the rust removed adequately it will stabilize the area so that you can prime it. But, like I've always said, blasting is best if you have the equipment and place to do it. Make sure you protect your lungs while blasting, if you have a supplied air system use it.

[JT1]

I've used Picklex 20 during my restoration, keeping surface rust at bay for years. In some heavily pitted spots, I blasted, then used picklex.

Later I saw Barry from SPI s warning about phosphoric acid and his primer. He said that neutralization was key for ALL epoxy primer. He seemed to be talking mainly about Ospho and phosphoric acid used directly.

Anyway, I wish I knew how Picklex 20 works. The main reason I used it is because, at least according to the instructions, it doesn't need top be rinsed. The blueish tint it leaves behind looks different than any other phosphoric acid based rust treatment. I think it has phosphoric acid in it, but I don't know for sure, If it does have acid in it, I don't know how strong the acid concentration is.

Back to epoxy primer. SPI supposedly sands "easy" which was attractive to me. So I wanted to try it, but was concerned due to Barry's strident warnings.

I decided since I was guessing whether Picklex 20 had acid in it, maybe I should go by their recommendation, which is of course, is to use primer with no acid in it.

I specifically asked Barry if SPI primer has acid in it, and he said NO! Read the details here if you'd like:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/does...id-206401.html
I bought some SPI and sprayed some formerly rusted and picklexed parts that I have cut off the car as a test. The primer seems as stuck to that as can be. No signs of the soft "un curing" underneath that Barry talks about when used over acid treated steel. Not sure how to do an error proof test, but it looks stuck to the metal, can't be scratched off any easier or harder than "non picklexed" steel, and does not gum up paper on the DA?

Now, I'm still concerned enough that I haven't yet used any SPI on exterior parts of the car that have been Picklexed. Since I about replaced every panel, I'm not sure I will ever need to.

I'd sure like to know for absolutely sure one way or another if I could use the SPI over the Pickelexd area without worrying about adhesion.

[Len]

I'd sure like to know for absolutely sure one way or another if I could use the SPI over the Pickelexd area without worrying about adhesion.

Press some wide tape onto the primed surface then pull it off quickly. If ANY primer comes off with the tape then these two products won't work together.

If you want details about Picklex click HERE.

[metalmadness]

If that car was in our shop we would spray about a square foot of Picklex 20 on the surface work it in with a scuff pad then wipe it off and move to the next square foot. After the entire car was treated we would do our body work because the Picklex would protect the metal from further rust and after the body work we would scuff and epoxy prime the entire car then apply our 2K primer, guide coat, block sand and paint.

You can also vinegar water the rusted surface.

[metalmadness]

Were you expecting the Picklex to REMOVE the rust? It doesn't do that but if you get the rust removed adequately it will stabilize the area so that you can prime it. But, like I've always said, blasting is best if you have the equipment and place to do it. Make sure you protect your lungs while blasting, if you have a supplied air system use it.

scuffing in vinegar water works well too.and is cheap.

[Len]

scuffing in vinegar water works well too.and is cheap.

There are a lot of "cheap" products and methods for dealing with rust but I haven't seen any that work nearly as well as Picklex 20 and if you're spending a lot of time and/or money on a project you will want the prep to be done properly and well. Picklex 20 is the best product we found for this job.

[merbesfield]

I am just retreading this thread I started a while back, must be getting old. Anyhow, now I am very confused bc on a cross post I started I am reading that SPI Epoxy primer does not have acid in it, then above someone says Barry said it does, which IIR he told me the same, but then on the other thread Jeremy says it does not contain acid. This is getting too confusing!

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showt...690#post224690

[Len]

I am just retreading this thread I started a while back, must be getting old. Anyhow, now I am very confused bc on a cross post I started I am reading that SPI Epoxy primer does not have acid in it, then above someone says Barry said it does, which IIR he told me the same, but then on the other thread Jeremy says it does not contain acid. This is getting too confusing!

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showt...690#post224690

If you're going to use a metal conditioner and you intend on using SPI epoxy, I'd recommend that you call SPI to make sure it contains no acid because primer with acid won't adhere properly.

[Deve]

So I am new and all, but what works so well for me is blasting the metal clean, then right away putting etching primer on it. Then, if its kept in climate controlled environment, you can move on to epoxy, filler, whatever 10 years later. What am I missing?