Collision Repair: Need Help

[Trey T]

Good morning,

I am in need of help on a collision repair I am attempting. Before I start doing anything crazy and stretches metal beyond worthy repair, I would like your help on how to PULL OUT the rear quarter panel where it meets the creases of the sill.

I made made attempts to weld studs at the edge, as shown in the photos, but pulling it w/ slide hammer is just stretching the IMMEDIATE area around the studs. I stopped trying b4 I do anything dumb. Please help me.

PHOTO DESCRIPTION:
photo 1: the dash line indicate the edge has been pushed in. This area was last to work on as it was the first area at the collision scene.

Here's an idea of mine. using oxy/ace torch and heat up the creases and then pull it. I was thinking of using propane but that takes too long to heat up and the heat will spread to the welded stud area. I haven't tried it yet.

[autobodytech43]

weld a plate onto it and pull off of it with a slide hammer. If you have a door skin hammer use that to tap down in the jamb where it's raised. You'll probably have to weld a few plates.

[Trey T]

Thanks for the reply.

If I take several sections of plates (1/2" wide by 3" long) and MIG weld them, would spot welding of three sides be sufficient? Photo attached for illustration.

The depth of the area is ~1". would 1/2" X 3" plate be efficient or need to be longer?

[autobodytech43]

looks like you're planning on welding it into the jamb. I was referring to where your studs are, but if it appears that's what it needs to the eye go for it. Should work but you need a lot of tacks to hold it if you pull hard on it. When I weld a plate I tack both sides and have about 4-6 tacks on each side.

[Trey T]

Since you're an experience bodyman, I should follow your method but I am not following of your description.

Do you mean to weld plates onto the studs and start pulling w/ slide hammer?

[MARTINSR]

Personally, from the photos I think this is a little out of the reach of the stud welder. The jamb looks collapsed and that stud welder is just not going to pull that off without pulling little volcanos.

I am thinking you need a little more pulling power, check out this link. http://autobodystore.com/forum/showt...ler-Pogo-Stick

Brian

[Len]

Thanks for the reply.

If I take several sections of plates (1/2" wide by 3" long) and MIG weld them, would spot welding of three sides be sufficient? Photo attached for illustration.

The depth of the area is ~1". would 1/2" X 3" plate be efficient or need to be longer?

There are two (not too expensive) tools that work well that could help you do the pulling.

One is a multi pin puller that is used with your stud welder. You need the puller and the tool that allows you to weld the studs close together.

To get the studs close enough you need this attachment for the Stud Welder

LINK


The second tool is a MO Clamp device that can be welded or brazed to the metal then pulled.


LINK

I don't really like welding sheet metal to the pull because it can easily damage the metal you're trying to fix. If you use something like a the MO Clamp or even just sheet metal and a clamp you should BRAZE them so that you can reheat the brass to remove the puller.

[Kalamity]

grab all the pins with your wide doser clamp(or use 2) and pull gently whit your doser while you knock the kinks whit your hammer, it might work, if not stop, and weld pieces of metal to pull back in place, a gentle pull damage less than banging it back ;o)

[Phil V]

Its really hard to tell just how far that lip is pushed in based on the pictures posted. Am I correct in assuming thats the right rear area of a newer style VW Beetle ? What does it look like with the deck lid/trunk lid closed ? Anyway you can post a couple well placed pictures of the area with the deck lid closed ?

By the looks of what I do see and based on the premise that the whole area where the quarter meets the deck lid is pushed in then my vote would be to weld (braze with brass rod) a sheet metal plate to the inside lip of that area so that the welded sheet metal plate is sticking straight outwards. Then you're going to need a body clamp (ideally) but a smaller chain and a set of good vice grips will work. Then you're going to need a 10 lb. slide hammer to the chain attached to the vice grips. Start with easy hits with the slide hammer then increase the sliding power until the area starts to move. By the looks of it - its going to take probably three welded sheet metal plates with one placed in the middle of the pushed in area then the other two placed halfway between the middle welded plate and the outer edge of the damaged lip you're trying to pull. A 10 lb slide hammer set can be bought pretty cheap and you could justify the cost on just that one job alone. I keep a couple small chains in one of my tool boxes for those kinds of jobs that you're doing.

Is there any access at all to that lip from the backside of the damaged area, or is it double paneled ? If there is some access then you might not need to do any welding and all you'll need is the 10 lb slide hammer set.

The stud welder is not your best choice in trying to pull that lip, wasn't designed for that type of work.

[MARTINSR]

It's a quarter on a Porsche Boxster damaged into the door jamb. The rocker is pushed in as well. I have to say that the brazing makes sense though I haven't ever done it that way. I put lots of spot welds and simply don't over pull it. But the brazing makes sense. Funny thing is up until just a few months ago I hadn't brazed on anything in 30 years and saw no reason to! That was until we were forced to set up a MIG brazing dedicated MIG at the shop for our "Verifax" qualifying for some certificate. Brazing is used so little around the late model cars there was no reason to even think about it. But now with us getting more and more into following the manufacturers exact repair recommendations we got this MIG brazing unit set up and it's pretty cool.

Brian

[Trey T]

thanks for the replies, guys.

The jamb is pushed in about 1/4" and the damage isn't that major. There's no access to the back of the panel as you can see in the photo that the splash-guard is taken off.

That's correct, it's an 97-04 boxster model. fixed the fender, door replaced (every parts switched over), rocker needs some more pulling, and this door jamb is the last part of this whole repair. I have spent about 6 hrs total in couple of days after work already, which is not bad for a newbie. I have done some body repair and painting work before on several cars but nothing complex.

I will will try similar method using plates and tack on welds; then use a manual tow winch and attach it to my truck tow hitch. I'm just trying to use the tools I have and I hope it will work.

I will document the progress.

awesome forum!

[Trey T]

here are some photos of ideas evolved from this forum. I had limited of time today and I used the tie-down ropes instead but it's weak.

Tomorrow, I will get a towing winch for more pulling power. It works, I tell ya, and I just have to work slowly at it.

[Len]

here are some photos of ideas evolved from this forum. I had limited of time today and I used the tie-down ropes instead but it's weak.

Tomorrow, I will get a towing winch for more pulling power. It works, I tell ya, and I just have to work slowly at it.

You would be able to get a lot more pull out of a come-a-long and it's a handy tool to have around for many different types of jobs that need pulling or lifting.

[Bob K]

I had to laugh when I saw the tie downs used for pulling but not because it is a bad idea but it brought back memories of things I’ve done. I can laugh at myself now. I can give you some information that you will discover on your own but maybe if I share, it will save you some time. I use a cable puller that can give me about 2 tons of pull. It sounds like a lot and for pulling body panels and it is, but you would be surprised how easy it is to pull the anchor vehicle around. That SUV will skid all over the place pulling sideways. You can turn the SUV 90 degrees so you are pulling parallel to the way it will role. Have someone sit inside and hold the breaks so all four tires need to skid. If it still moves around you can place an 8 foot 4x4 between the vehicles. Block the 4x4 against a hard point on the rear of the frame where the bumper attaches and put the other end on a hard spot on the car frame. As you apply pull with the cable puller watch to make sure you are not damaging the spots where the 4x4 is anchored. I use my skid steer with the 4x4 in the bucket and I pull with the hook on the bucket. I can’t damage that thing.

Bob K

[Trey T]

Well, it's always silly to see ppl using non-mainstream tools. I LoL, too. I will use the winch posted above and tie it to a tree (1.5-2 feet diameter) nearby today. Will that be more funny?