Lacquer Orange Peel in clear versus single stage metalic....
I have a big dilemma that I'm pretty sure someone here can help me out with.
I have a 69 Corvette that I'm restoring and to be as authentic as possible I'm using PPG lacquer, silver lacquer to be exact. I have a painter that sprays several cars a year with this paint but had never shot this shade of silver(Cortez Silver) before. Also, in staying true to the original I didn't want a clear, just color.
I decided to polish it myself but while polishing it, mottling started to appear. It actually started to appear while there was still a fair bit of orange peel left so I think I was doomed from the start. I say this because I wasn't going for a glass smooth look. I WANTED the orange peel to look like it did on Corvettes back then and in many cases it was quite severe!
To fix the mottling my painter suggests reshooting it BUT using a lacquer clear this time so that any polishing won't affect the metalic in the paint. This time around I'm okay with that because I don't want to go through all this mottling grief again. This time I'll leave the car with him longer and he said he'll wet sand and polish the orange peel out so it will be smooth as glass with obviously no mottling.
BUT, I still want a factory like orange peel look so after my long winded explanation here is my question.
If the clear is sprayed the same way that the silver was sprayed will the orange peel effect be the same? In other words will the clear dry with the same orange peel texture as a pure color or will it flow out more due it not having any pigments or other properties in it that the color coat has?
What I'm looking for is still the factory orange peel texture you would get with a single stage lacquer BUT with a lacquer clear. Is this realistic?
Yes you can get your orange peel with a clear coat.
I think you're making a big mistake useing lacquer,
especially on a Vette. Lacquer gets really hard and brittle
and Vettes have a body that shrinks and expands more than metal.
It's extremely important to use a paint that stays flexible on a Vette.
And just as important to keep the mill build as low as possible.
Lacquer jobs on Vettes is asking for trouble.
I know a lot of people say that fiberglass expands and contracts more than metal but I haven't seen any proof of that. I've found that lacquer holds up better on glass but is still a very brittle paint. The problem I see at this point is that the silver needs to be reapplied which will increase the film thickness and the clear will also add to the film thickness and all this film build can cause cracking as the lacquer ages. As the lacquer dries it will tend to shrink and as it shrinks it will tend to crack.
Originally Posted by JCCLARK
I wouldn't worry about the orange peel, I would apply the silver using SLOW thinner and allow it to flash well inbetween coats and don't sand it (if possible) before polishing. This will help eliminate buffing through the layers of metallic. The clear lacquer is much more brittle than the color but can be added to the color to help eliminate sanding through the layers of metallic.
It's not a bad idea to spray another couple of coats of color then mix the color and clear together and apply another couple of coats. I wouldn't put more than about 3 parts color to 1 part clear or you could end up with stripes from the spray gun.
Back in the day...
When lacquer was the paint being used, the jobs that failed first were those painted in the morning and sanded & buffed in the afternoon "cuz the customer was coming at 5 to pick up the car".
I would paint the car and leave it alone for at least 30 days parked in the bright sun. Actually, if you had a SOLID color I would suggest you use SS (single stage urethane).
MOTTLING? Not sure what you mean as mottling normally occurs in the painting process where the metalic doesn't lay correctly. Only thing I can think of by your use of the word is you buffed into the metalic layer. Good luck. Henry
I've been thinking....
If you add a small amount of clear to the silver you should be ok but if you add a little too much it's not going to look factory because it will cause the silver to sparkle more than the old color.
Thanks guys for your thoughts and cautions on using lacquer. I appreciate the warnings about it's application and durability. However I'm fully aware of it's down falls but still decided on it due to the limited use the car will get as well as how it will be stored. I wanted an authentic restoration over everyday durability so lacquer it is.
Len, the painter did mix clear with the silver when he shot it and I still got "mottling". Maybe that's not the correct term... What I'm getting is lighter colored irregular patches that really show up in the right light conditions. I'm no painter by a long shot but I feel that his final coat was way too dry so it's taking alot of polishing to knock the orange peel down to a factory level and by this point I've started to disturb the aluminum flakes thus causing the "mottling"....
So we have decided to go with a clear top coat and I just want to make sure that I will have the correct looking orange peel in this clear coat that I would have had if he were to just shoot a final color coat. I realize that silvers are about 1/2-2/3 clears anyways so I'm hoping that a actual clear coat over silver won't stick out too much.
Is there anything special that he would have to do to get a factory orange peel look in the clear or should he just shoot it like a solid?
For what it's worth I can post some pics tonight of what I think is too dry of a paint to get your opinions.
Todays lacquers are no where near the quality of what they used to be back in the day.Mottling happens when the paint starts to dry before it hits the surface,you might need an extra slow thinner.But if you want a factory like job mottling is ok,thats how they were with corn on the cob looking texture/orange peel.To reproduce this you need to increase your distance and lower your pressure to reduce atomization.I would suggest using an old Devilbiss JGA or MBC to shoot this job at about 40-45 psi any higher and it will be to smooth.You will be fine with lacquer clear on top,same idea as base clear.
Here are the pics of the "mottling"(just left of the light reflection) and what I'm thinking is too dry of a final coat(head light door). The pic of the dry headlight door was taken after two rounds of polishing. So is this normal or is it really too dry?
That's a pretty rough surface to try to smooth using only a polisher. Are you sanding it with fine, wet sandpaper before you buff it?
Originally Posted by lintmann
Yes and no Len...
This car was my first attempt at polishing lacquer so I tried the t-tops first. They took forever to polish out so I asked some NCRS paint guys what to do. They said to wet sand with 1500 so I did. I sanded about half to two thirds of the orange peel out and then polished and they came out okay but the depressions left in the orange peel from not totaly sanding it out then showed up as "pits" and looked odd. Remember I'm trying to get a factory look here so I didn't want to sand it all out.
My painter suggested to just polish and not wet sand so thats what I did on the rest of the car. But then it "mottled".....
What I don't get why I don't have any "mottling" on the t-tops (which was wet sanded) but I do have it on the rest of the car (which wasnt wet sanded)? I mean isn't wet sanding and polishing BOTH removing paint and if either is taken too far WILL cause "mottling" in metalics? I've actually wet sanded farther into the paint than I've polished off too.......
You may be getting a change in color caused by the heat of the buffer against the metallic particles or it may be polish discoloring the textured surface. You can apply clear but the problem with clear lacquer is that it is the most brittle of all lacquer and it doesn't age well. If the car is going to be garage kept and only brought out periodically then the clear may be the way to go. Other than that you can repaint but you should use a slower thinner to help eliminate that dry sandpaper-like finish and you should be able to sand and polish it and get the amount of orange peel you want without causing discoloration.
Originally Posted by lintmann