Wet Sanding/Orange Peel Problems

[thunderguns71]

Maybe someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong here. I'm using Dupont ChomaOne SS in black. I've shot 4 nice flowing coats on the car. No runs. Orange peel didn't look to bad so I wet sanded the car down with 2000 grit on a hard rubber block. I used a squeegee as I was sanding and from what I could tell there was no orange peel left. After this I went over it with 3000 Trizact on a DA. Buffed it out with Presta Ultra Cutting Cream Light.

In the booth the car looks perfect. Plenty of depth and shine. I go to pull it out in the sunlight and it looks like all the orange peel is still there, it's just flattend. Basically it looks like a new car at the dealer and I was aiming for more of a show car finish since black shows everything.

Any ideas?

[style]

First off order roberts video it will save you so much time and redos..

Secondly 2000 is to fine a grit you need something more agressive to level your surface try hiting it with a block with 1000 (I personally would use 800) then 1500 then use a wool pad and a medium cut compound with a rotory buffer then use a blk foam polishing pad with the same compound and buffer this makes your swirl marks from the previous pad smaller now get a foam pad polish with a black pad. Again and hit the whole car at medium speed keep in mind swirl marks are created by heat.. and post some PICS!!

[style]

First off order roberts video it will save you so much time and redos..

Secondly 2000 is to fine a grit you need something more agressive to level your surface try hiting it with a block with 1000 (I personally would use 800) then 1500 then use a wool pad and a medium cut compound with a rotory buffer then use a blk foam polishing pad with the same compound and buffer this makes your swirl marks from the previous pad smaller now get a foam pad polish with a black pad. Again and hit the whole car at medium speed keep in mind swirl marks are created by heat.. and post some PICS!!

Btw this is all assuming you don't have access to a forced rotation polisher wich is what you really need especially if your gonna be doing a lot of blk cars..

[thunderguns71]

Well I tried to take pictures, but it doesn't show it. Maybe because it's getting cloudy out. I guess I'll just re sand it with 1000 and go from there. I did do the trunk lid separate using the same 2000 grit process and it came out flawless. You can see reflections in it without distortions. Like looking in a mirror.

[Len]

Well I tried to take pictures, but it doesn't show it. Maybe because it's getting cloudy out. I guess I'll just re sand it with 1000 and go from there. I did do the trunk lid separate using the same 2000 grit process and it came out flawless. You can see reflections in it without distortions. Like looking in a mirror.

Style is right, start with a stiff block and more coarse paper to level the paint (just like you would with body filler) then switch to finer grits to remove the more coarse scratches then polish. Starting with a fine grit has a tendency to leave waves in the surface while a more coase grit would tend to flatten it.

[Henry]

Well I tried to take pictures, but it doesn't show it. Maybe because it's getting cloudy out. I guess I'll just re sand it with 1000 and go from there. I did do the trunk lid separate using the same 2000 grit process and it came out flawless. You can see reflections in it without distortions. Like looking in a mirror.

Not sure if he forgot or just didn't say. What I'm talking about is Style told you to use the same product for your compound and keep going with it for the other buffing steps. He is (I think) talking about something like Robert's Sure Finish. His other information is spot on correct.

The other thing is you can't just use the cutting creme which is Presta's compound. They make a 1500 or 2000 glaze that removes buffing marks and majority of the swirls. They also make a swirl remover. Then after all those steps (3 products) you need to see how things come out with a microfiber cloth. I used Presta products for a long time. Even bought it from Len many years ago. That is until I tried ONE product (Sure Finish) for the 3 that Presta requires. My results are flawless BUT you have to 'cut' the peel and 2000 just ain't gonna get you there.

Also, I never wet sand anymore but when I did and I used the squegee I could always tell how much peel I had left. You can see the shiny dots showing low in the sanded surface. I can understand you never did remove the peel with the 2000 but I don't understand how come you couldn't see it.

Take your time, do small sections at a time, keep in mind how much material (paint) you have onethe car and how much you have left and you'll do fine. Henry

[thunderguns71]

The reason I stopped at the cutting cream is because I noticed the peel was still there. No need to polish it since it's got to be re sanded. I've got a bottle of sure finish and it worked fine as a final polish on the trunk lid, (took all the swirl marks out), but as far as cutting, it just wasn't doing the job. Even after I used the Trizact. It seemed to do alright with a wool pad, the orange, then black, but after I'd wipe it down, the scratches would still be there. The presta on a medium wool pad after one maybe two passes, took them out and brought out a great shine after I wiped it down. Then I just sure finished what few swirls were left.

As to why I couldn't see the peel, I still don't understand why. I used the squeegee religiously. The roof came out flat, with no peel that I can tell, even in the sunlight. The sides are the problem. I'll try at the pics again today, it's sunny out. I guess I could re sand it in the sunlight next time.

[Henry]

The reason I stopped at the cutting cream is because I noticed the peel was still there. No need to polish it since it's got to be re sanded. I've got a bottle of sure finish and it worked fine as a final polish on the trunk lid, (took all the swirl marks out), but as far as cutting, it just wasn't doing the job. Even after I used the Trizact. It seemed to do alright with a wool pad, the orange, then black, but after I'd wipe it down, the scratches would still be there. The presta on a medium wool pad after one maybe two passes, took them out and brought out a great shine after I wiped it down. Then I just sure finished what few swirls were left.

As to why I couldn't see the peel, I still don't understand why. I used the squeegee religiously. The roof came out flat, with no peel that I can tell, even in the sunlight. The sides are the problem. I'll try at the pics again today, it's sunny out. I guess I could re sand it in the sunlight next time.

you're all hooked up with the same stuff I use. I love the orange pad. As for seeing, you could make a light reflect at an angle to the surface. Many people, Robert also, wear a light on their head like a Coal Miner. You can try outside but in the shade. The sun will get the paint too hot.

When I first tried Sure Finish, I used the same wool pad I was using with the cutting creme. The Sure Finish did not want to work for me. It was like sliding over the surface without doing much of anything. I'm convinced it was the ucc residue buried in my pad. Now I use a different pad for like chemical makeup products. Good luck. Henry

[thunderguns71]

Here's some pics. Still cant really tell the peel.

[style]

Not sure if he forgot or just didn't say. What I'm talking about is Style told you to use the same product for your compound and keep going with it for the other buffing steps. He is (I think) talking about something like Robert's Sure Finish. His other information is spot on correct.

The other thing is you can't just use the cutting creme which is Presta's compound. They make a 1500 or 2000 glaze that removes buffing marks and majority of the swirls. They also make a swirl remover. Then after all those steps (3 products) you need to see how things come out with a microfiber cloth. I used Presta products for a long time. Even bought it from Len many years ago. That is until I tried ONE product (Sure Finish) for the 3 that Presta requires. My results are flawless BUT you have to 'cut' the peel and 2000 just ain't gonna get you there.

Also, I never wet sand anymore but when I did and I used the squegee I could always tell how much peel I had left. You can see the shiny dots showing low in the sanded surface. I can understand you never did remove the peel with the 2000 but I don't understand how come you couldn't see it.

Take your time, do small sections at a time, keep in mind how much material (paint) you have onethe car and how much you have left and you'll do fine. Henry

i didnt forget anything i use my compound with a regular wool cutting pad then a black foam pad to reduce the swirl marks that way when i hit it again with polish or whatever they are smaller and easier to get rid of weather it be shure finish or parkers complete compound wich cuts a lil more then sf its the same principal...

[tomsteve]

not to change subjects, but ya got some detail ont he car? year? engine? trans?

[thunderguns71]

71 Mustang, 429/auto. Has a few mods done to the motor. Been working on it off an on for about 5 years. Was my first car so trying to do it up right. It's been a basket case for the most part. Had to replace the entire passenger 1/4 panel, the lower drivers 1/4, the tail panel, the passengers door, and cowl was rotted out. Pulled a good 2 gallons of bondo out of it. Car was painted yellow, but was originally black, which is what I'm getting it back to. The whole car is nothing but curves and body lines so all this body work is getting a bit old lol, but shes arrow straight now.

[tomsteve]

oh yeah!!! lotsa curves!LOL awesome car. love mustangs. please keep us up on the progress!

[thunderguns71]

Bringing back up an old topic here. Haven't worked on the car in a long time, got discouraged with it. I did get all the orange peel out though. Now I've run into a bigger problem that's about to push me to sell the whole project.

I'm still using the Presta line. I've went over the entire car with the Cutting Cream Light and the Yellow Medium cut wool pad. That's taking out 95% of the scratches. The other 5% are scratches that accidentally got put in and wont polish out, but you can't really see them. The next step I've done two ways. I've went directly to the Swirl Remover with the Blue foam pad and I've tried going with the Chroma 1500 with the green pad, then the Swirl Remover with the same results. I've got "spider webs" everywhere. To the point the car looks dull in the full sun. I've buffed this car 4 times so far with the same results. I even tried the Presta glaze which is the worst stuff I've ever used. It dulls the finish even more. I'm using a rotary buffer with low speeds while I'm polishing.

There has got to be something to take all the spider webs out. I'm about to throw all my Presta products in the trash. I don't who makes it or what it cost, but seriously I can't live with a car that looks like crap. The car never sees weather and is kept inside so I'd settle for a glaze if I found one that worked.
Any help would be great, before I lose my mind.

[thunderguns71]

quick update, I went over and tried some Sure Finish. Used it on the black pad and it helped some, then used a cotton bonnet and it took a lot of the "spider webs or cob webs" out of the paint. I'm thinking maybe some Zaino would fix the rest of it?