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Thread: Chevy pick up restoration

  1. #76
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    It might be ugly during the repair but it came out nice and strong and you can't tell it was repaired by looking at the finished lid. After he finished the welding of the EZ Edge he ground it and applied fiberglass then body filler and ended up with a strong and undetectable repair.

    So what is wrong with the first picture you posted?

    Nevermind, you don't have a clue.


  2. #77
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    Great videos, though the 2 were the same thing. I'm only interested in the original show quality type repairs. How would you do a cab corner repair and make is undetectable? It would be very difficult to grind the inside part. I would still like to know where to get a spot weld cutter that is smaller than 3/8 inch diameter, and doesn't create a hole in the opposite panel, I don't really like the idea of having to fix 2 sides of the weld. Also how are you making a tack weld in a spot weld cut out hole look like an original spot weld? And a huge thanks for the video I learned how to fit the patch panel. You do good work.

  3. #78
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    I donít like small spot weld cutters because you need a decent size hole to start your weld on the bottom sheet of metal. If the hole is too small you will get a weld that looks good on top but may not be attached to the back piece of metal. Looks good but wonít hold up very well. That pilot hole is insignificant when you start welding the new connection. I was taught to place my plug welds in the same place that the original manufacturer placed his spot welds, so I drill a hole in the new panel at the same place as the spot weld. You should see the hole on the lower panel right where the plug weld is going to be. If you are welding plug welds and turn the metal over and see no evidence of the weld then Iím sorry to tell you your welds arenít going to hold. You are probably getting a skim over the hole but not an attachment. You canít get a good weld on sheet metal and not see it on the back side. The metal is just too thin. If you donít see where the weld is then it isnít really attached there.

    To go on to your question of mimicking spot welds, you can spread filler along the line of plug welds after they have been ground to perfection and take a wood pencil with a rubber eraser and give the eraser a little spin in the fresh filler. After it sets up a little sanding will remove the edge that formed but leaves a mark that will look like a spot weld when painted.

    Bob K

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by icrman View Post
    Great videos, though the 2 were the same thing. I'm only interested in the original show quality type repairs. How would you do a cab corner repair and make is undetectable? It would be very difficult to grind the inside part. I would still like to know where to get a spot weld cutter that is smaller than 3/8 inch diameter, and doesn't create a hole in the opposite panel, I don't really like the idea of having to fix 2 sides of the weld. Also how are you making a tack weld in a spot weld cut out hole look like an original spot weld? And a huge thanks for the video I learned how to fit the patch panel. You do good work.
    Thanks for the kind words. I think I might do one on basic fabrication as well, which would be explained in a way that would make it a snap for anybody. You'd like that.

    I have to admit, I think doing the cab corner as an open butt weld might be kind of hard. I'm not sure cause it's not like I had a chance to line it up edge to edge but with the way it wraps around I can imagine it being a pain in the ass, a real pain! Then again, I don't know cause I didn't try. The way I did it I just flanged it all around where the tool would fit in but open butt welded 1" on each side of the bodyline that wraps it around the corner. Doing that sucks it up where it wraps around. It's impossible with the flange there, I tried!

    If I wanted to open butt weld it I would scribe it like in the video and do the same thing but just be more aware of my cut line when I'm cutting and insuring I'm cutting below the scribe.
    The most important thing for an open butt weld would not only be lining up the bodyline and cut line but the one that can get you by surprise is the angle of the panels butting up. That's just as important as your cut line if you want clean work.

    I make plugs look like factory by grinding them down a certain way and leaving the edge. If one side of the edge grinds down by accident you can
    turn it into a moon shape, which is still something you see as factory. However, I think Bob answered this with something that sounds really good or
    better. Using an eraser on soft filler. Brilliant!

    As far as where to get the bits, I think it would be rude to say. Len sells quality stuff here and so it's not appropriate for me to say.
    Last edited by tech69; 03-25-2011 at 08:42 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob K View Post
    I donít like small spot weld cutters because you need a decent size hole to start your weld on the bottom sheet of metal. If the hole is too small you will get a weld that looks good on top but may not be attached to the back piece of metal. Looks good but wonít hold up very well. That pilot hole is insignificant when you start welding the new connection. I was taught to place my plug welds in the same place that the original manufacturer placed his spot welds, so I drill a hole in the new panel at the same place as the spot weld. You should see the hole on the lower panel right where the plug weld is going to be. If you are welding plug welds and turn the metal over and see no evidence of the weld then Iím sorry to tell you your welds arenít going to hold. You are probably getting a skim over the hole but not an attachment. You canít get a good weld on sheet metal and not see it on the back side. The metal is just too thin. If you donít see where the weld is then it isnít really attached there.

    To go on to your question of mimicking spot welds, you can spread filler along the line of plug welds after they have been ground to perfection and take a wood pencil with a rubber eraser and give the eraser a little spin in the fresh filler. After it sets up a little sanding will remove the edge that formed but leaves a mark that will look like a spot weld when painted.

    Bob K
    oooooooooh shit! That's an awesome technique. I'll remember that. You can also grind them down real low and leave the edges. You have to grind it carefully though. You can also do half moons as well. Grind it, fiber disk, and prime.

  6. #81
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    Hey Tec please cool it with Len, I don't want to see ya kicked off. I love seeing the task force fix it stuff, if your gone there will be none. Len does some really nice work too, and saying nothing about all the time and effort to keep this site going. I have learned a bunch from this site.

    About the welding, I've done plenty of welding in the past, so I know when theres penetration or not, and actually it does not take much of a weld to mimic a spot weld, spot welds are not the best weld there is, because generally they have been done in the atmosphere, unlike a mig or even stick weld, which has a flux or inert gas to keep the atmoshere out of the weld material. The biggest problem is the thin material is not very forgiving to burn through.

    Question are you always multi spot welding when putting in those panels? Or do you at a point lay a bead? And how come your not using a auto darken helmut?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
    oooooooooh shit! That's an awesome technique. I'll remember that. You can also grind them down real low and leave the edges. You have to grind it carefully though. You can also do half moons as well. Grind it, fiber disk, and prime.
    Most of the cars that we do we don't want any spot weld craters showing, we want a real smooth surface not a factory one. I've done restorations where an original look was important but even then the raising of the original workmanship to a new level usually won the prize.

    There's nothing I like more than seeing an "old and original" car at a show but they are few and far between and the resto is almost always honed to higher quality than the original factory buggy.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Most of the cars that we do we don't want any spot weld craters showing, we want a real smooth surface not a factory one. I've done restorations where an original look was important but even then the raising of the original workmanship to a new level usually won the prize.

    There's nothing I like more than seeing an "old and original" car at a show but they are few and far between and the resto is almost always honed to higher quality than the original factory buggy.
    True, very true.

    Except jeeps. Gotta keep for those.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
    True, very true.

    Except jeeps. Gotta keep for those.
    Again, it depends on the result you want. We just did a Jeep and the decision was made to eliminate the spot welds because they distorted the metal so much. If they had all been the same we probably would have left them but they were quite uneven and showed just how poor the workmanship was so we pounded, pulled and filled until they were gone. It looks a lot better but not "original".

    jeep quarter.jpg
    Click to Enlarge

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Again, it depends on the result you want. We just did a Jeep and the decision was made to eliminate the spot welds because they distorted the metal so much. If they had all been the same we probably would have left them but they were quite uneven and showed just how poor the workmanship was so we pounded, pulled and filled until they were gone. It looks a lot better but not "original".

    jeep quarter.jpg
    Click to Enlarge
    very true. I try to keep as many as I can. If i take to many out on that line of spot welds I'll take them all out. I just use it as an excuse to get out of bodywork. "hey boss, want to keep the spot welds?"

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
    very true. I try to keep as many as I can. If i take to many out on that line of spot welds I'll take them all out. I just use it as an excuse to get out of bodywork. "hey boss, want to keep the spot welds?"
    Usually, when someone is paying four times as much for body and paint work as the car originally costs, they don't want dents showing all over the side. But the purists might see it otherwise.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by icrman View Post
    Hey Tec please cool it with Len, I don't want to see ya kicked off. I love seeing the task force fix it stuff, if your gone there will be none. Len does some really nice work too, and saying nothing about all the time and effort to keep this site going. I have learned a bunch from this site.

    About the welding, I've done plenty of welding in the past, so I know when theres penetration or not, and actually it does not take much of a weld to mimic a spot weld, spot welds are not the best weld there is, because generally they have been done in the atmosphere, unlike a mig or even stick weld, which has a flux or inert gas to keep the atmoshere out of the weld material. The biggest problem is the thin material is not very forgiving to burn through.

    Question are you always multi spot welding when putting in those panels? Or do you at a point lay a bead? And how come your not using a auto darken helmut?
    I don't use a helmet for the initial line up, or with that one anyways. I just wanted to make sure that baby didn't move. This truck is almost done and I wanted that one to be perfect.I have a great blue nitro self darkening. I love it.

    It depends on the panel whether or not I tack it or run small tack beads. . Some of the things to consider is how vulnerable that area is to warpage. The shape has to do with that. Tighter areas of metal are harder to warp naturally, like areas trapped in by bodylines. Curves are harder warp. In the middle of huge panels you don't want to run beads. They warp! The closer it is to the edge the less it will want to warp, cause it's tighter naturally.
    So basically if it's a go for a bead I still only run a 1/4" tack-bead hybrid due to hot settings. Great penetration. So when I can run a bead I will for the easy clean up.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by icrman View Post
    Question are you always multi spot welding when putting in those panels? Or do you at a point lay a bead?
    I'm not Tech (Henry), but I'll chime in here...

    As far as creating a bead by pulling the trigger and letting it fly (bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)? Almost never.

    Looking at this picture, you'll see plenty of 'beads' created by triggering the gun (bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,).

    The toe board (area behind the gas and brake pedal) is true butt welds. The floor pan is a combination of plug welds, butt welds, and butt welds with backers (using factory framerails, transmission crossmember, and seat platform flanges as the backers). Makes for a practically invisible repair when finished.

    SamG


  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Again, it depends on the result you want. We just did a Jeep and the decision was made to eliminate the spot welds because they distorted the metal so much. If they had all been the same we probably would have left them but they were quite uneven and showed just how poor the workmanship was so we pounded, pulled and filled until they were gone. It looks a lot better but not "original".

    jeep quarter.jpg
    Click to Enlarge
    Len, I was talking to a couple folks about this not long ago,, and someone recommended using panel adhesive for bonding new quarters to the wheel wells to eliminate the need to plug weld on the face of the panel. Eliminating the need to dress those welds out to hide them.
    Is that something you would recommend?.
    Waterford, Mi.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamG View Post
    I'm not Tech (Henry), but I'll chime in here...

    As far as creating a bead by pulling the trigger and letting it fly (bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)? Almost never.

    Looking at this picture, you'll see plenty of 'beads' created by triggering the gun (bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,bz,,).

    The toe board (area behind the gas and brake pedal) is true butt welds. The floor pan is a combination of plug welds, butt welds, and butt welds with backers (using factory framerails, transmission crossmember, and seat platform flanges as the backers). Makes for a practically invisible repair when finished.

    SamG

    your welding is tops around here. No doubt. I WISH I could make my welds that pretty. Great approach and that's what I try to aim for...minus the perfect welds you do.

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