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Thread: Buffing clearcoat tips, etc

  1. #1

    Default Buffing clearcoat tips, etc

    I'm having a little trouble with the final steps of my paint job.

    I sanded the hell out of my clear, (ceramic- big mistake) starting with 600 and working my way up to 2000.

    Using a wool pad with 3M polish, (the white stuff that I think is Finess It II), I started buffing out the clear. The polish seems to be aggressive enough as I can get the desired shine, in some areas.

    I've only attempted a small panel, but the results are inconsistent. Some parts are hazy, while others parts are shiny/glossy.

    After the polish dries, I've sprayed some water on the panel and gone over it a second time.

    I guess what I really need is a detailed description of the buffing process (and not so much of the product selection).

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default finesse it II

    Quote Originally Posted by laldog View Post
    I'm having a little trouble with the final steps of my paint job.

    I sanded the hell out of my clear, (ceramic- big mistake) starting with 600 and working my way up to 2000.

    Using a wool pad with 3M polish, (the white stuff that I think is Finess It II), I started buffing out the clear. The polish seems to be aggressive enough as I can get the desired shine, in some areas.

    I've only attempted a small panel, but the results are inconsistent. Some parts are hazy, while others parts are shiny/glossy.

    After the polish dries, I've sprayed some water on the panel and gone over it a second time.

    I guess what I really need is a detailed description of the buffing process (and not so much of the product selection).

    Thanks in advance.
    Dont think that is agressive enough to get you where you want to be. I have tried it more than once and don't like it much. If some areas are shiny you have sanded all scratches up to 2000 out of the clear and polished properly. If it's hazy you either didn't cut all the scratches out with the 2000 or the compound hasn't been used properly. I have neglected to remove all subsequent sand scratches from each progressively finer grit leaving a hazy look even after compounding and polishing.

    Consider Trizac 3000 with an interface pad wet making 2 or three slow overlapping passes.
    For buffing I recommend 3M Perfect-it line compound and the appropriate dark or light color polish with the appropriate pads. Think this is what PPG recommends anyway in this application...
    [SIGPIC]

  3. #3
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    Default Same as 2cents

    Quote Originally Posted by laldog View Post
    I'm having a little trouble with the final steps of my paint job.

    I sanded the hell out of my clear, (ceramic- big mistake) starting with 600 and working my way up to 2000.

    Using a wool pad with 3M polish, (the white stuff that I think is Finess It II), I started buffing out the clear. The polish seems to be aggressive enough as I can get the desired shine, in some areas.

    I've only attempted a small panel, but the results are inconsistent. Some parts are hazy, while others parts are shiny/glossy.

    After the polish dries, I've sprayed some water on the panel and gone over it a second time.

    I guess what I really need is a detailed description of the buffing process (and not so much of the product selection).

    Thanks in advance.
    600 is pretty coarse and the scratches are quite deep so my guess is that the dullness is probably scratches that were not sanded enough with the finer grit sandpaper. Find a dull spot and wet sand it with some 3000 grit Trizact the buff it again. This is not an easy process but when done properly it makes for a beautiful paint job.

    Both the Spray Painting 101 and Detailing for Enthusiasts show sanding and buffing but the detailing video has more on that subject.


  4. #4
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    Default service bulletin statement on ceramiclear

    This is the recommendation concerning this particular clear from Mercedes-Benz.....

    When machine polishing this paint, we recommend using a DA with a foam pad.
    Good results have been obtained with both the Meguiar’s and 3M materials.

    Look at the bottom of this bulletin:
    http://www.ppg.com/coatings/refinish...eramiClear.pdf
    [SIGPIC]

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by another2centsworth View Post
    This is the recommendation concerning this particular clear from Mercedes-Benz.....

    When machine polishing this paint, we recommend using a DA with a foam pad.
    Good results have been obtained with both the Meguiar’s and 3M materials.

    Look at the bottom of this bulletin:
    http://www.ppg.com/coatings/refinish...eramiClear.pdf
    Maybe things have changed but I used several different Meguiar's products and wouldn't recommend any of them. I experimented with a half dozen of their products several years ago and ended up trashing them.

  6. #6
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    Default Meguirs???

    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    Maybe things have changed but I used several different Meguiar's products and wouldn't recommend any of them. I experimented with a half dozen of their products several years ago and ended up trashing them.
    Don't know much about meguiar's but i like 3m.
    [SIGPIC]

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laldog View Post
    I'm having a little trouble with the final steps of my paint job.

    I sanded the hell out of my clear, (ceramic- big mistake) starting with 600 and working my way up to 2000.

    Using a wool pad with 3M polish, (the white stuff that I think is Finess It II), I started buffing out the clear. The polish seems to be aggressive enough as I can get the desired shine, in some areas.

    I've only attempted a small panel, but the results are inconsistent. Some parts are hazy, while others parts are shiny/glossy.

    After the polish dries, I've sprayed some water on the panel and gone over it a second time.

    I guess what I really need is a detailed description of the buffing process (and not so much of the product selection).

    Thanks in advance.
    I always got the same problem when buffing clearcoat sanded upto 2000 and no higher. So as of now, I always sand up to 3000 Trizact, or even 4000 Abralon, and it makes buffing much easier .........
    Last edited by stanclub; 09-01-2010 at 05:45 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stanclub View Post
    I always got the same problem when buffing clearcoat sanded upto 2000 and no higher. So as of now, I always sand up to 3000 Trizact, or even 4000 Abralon, and it makes buffing much easier .........
    where do you get this 3000 and 4000

  9. #9
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    Default

    You can get them from Len

    http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/m...tegory_Code=M3

    They are in about the middle of the page.

    Bob K

  10. #10

    Default

    Working with PPG, BASF and Mercedes Benz, in Menzerna 2003 developed special polishes for use on PPG CeramiClear™ Clear Coat for removing scratches, swirls and paint defects Beyond superior abrasives, Menzerna has pioneered the development of polishes designed specifically for the hard clear coats, like those used by General Motors on the Corvette and PPG CeramiClear™ Clear Coat being used by Mercedes Benz. Super Intensive and Nanotechnology Polish are currently used by Mercedes - Benz in Germany on their production line to remove swirls and over-spray incurred during the painting process.

    Polishing Technique

    Start by polishing a small area for a few seconds to ‘warm’ the oil lubrication system and the wax thickener within a 5 - 6 inch area with a few small passes. The idea here is to polish for a few seconds just to liquefy the wax and warm the oils that are used for surface lubrication.

    Spread the polish over the work area, it should spread easily, continue your passes at 1200 – 1500 RPM until the diminishing abrasives have broken down (the polish will become translucent) and then reduce the speed to 1000RPM for one or two final passes

    Here are just a few examples of foam pad and Menzerna polish combinations.

    Single-Step
    Menzerna Power Finish PO203S a Lake County (LC) Orange or a Green pad

    Two-Step Combinations
    1. Menzerna Super Intensive Polish PO83 on an (LC) Orange pad
    2. Menzerna Final Finish PO106FA on a (LC) White pad

  11. #11

    Default

    You need to pick up some Menzerna Powergloss. The previous recommendations of Menzerna are just polishes. You need a compound and wool. If going Meguiars the M95 works pretty good on scratch-resistant clears.

    I like the Abralon system of 2000 and 4000 for refining scratches also.

    Did you wetsand the factory paint with P600?? Or did you spray a car with SRC? If you sanded factory paint with 600 you aren't going to have anything left by the time you get the finish polished up.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanbrown999 View Post
    You need to pick up some Menzerna Powergloss. The previous recommendations of Menzerna are just polishes. You need a compound and wool. If going Meguiars the M95 works pretty good on scratch-resistant clears.

    I like the Abralon system of 2000 and 4000 for refining scratches also.

    Did you wetsand the factory paint with P600?? Or did you spray a car with SRC? If you sanded factory paint with 600 you aren't going to have anything left by the time you get the finish polished up.
    How do you see the result of your polishing when using Menzerna products? I find that they has so much lubricant that they fill the scratches and you can't see if the scratches are gone or just filled with oils. This was one of the reasons I stopped using Presta, it looks like you've done a great job at first but, as the lubricant washes out, the scratches reappear and more polishing is needed. You should try some Sure Finish, it's not a diminishing abrasive like most polishes and it has almost no oils so what you see is what you get.
    Last edited by Len; 12-24-2010 at 08:41 AM.

  13. #13

    Default

    The Menz polishes recommended are for finishing after 2000 or 3000 grit finishing paper has been used (Power Finish PO 203 is a 2000 grit rated polish)

    Surface lubrication will allow a longer 'working' period for the polish but will 'fill' unless removed with an IPA wipedown process.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TOGWT View Post
    The Menz polishes recommended are for finishing after 2000 or 3000 grit finishing paper has been used (Power Finish PO 203 is a 2000 grit rated polish)

    Surface lubrication will allow a longer 'working' period for the polish but will 'fill' unless removed with an IPA wipedown process.
    If you use a polish that is NOT a diminishing abrasive (like Sure Finish) you'll use a lot less polish because you can spray a little water on it to reactivate it in the pad. Also it doesn't fill the surface scratches nearly as much and you don't hide these scratches with lubricant. Because you're using a lot less polish there is very little (if any) "flinging" polish left on the car, on you or anywhere else in the shop. No wipedown required to remove oils.

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