New to a complete bare metal refinshing but not to painting over "old" finishes. I have a 1975 datsun that was stripped to bare metal and coated with Zinnser white primer sealer, since i have inherited this paint job, i have found a few rust spots, nothing going all the way thru the original metal but some surface rust with pits. I have cleaned them out with wire brush on variable speed grinder and treated with phosphoric acid, want to know if treating with phosphoric acid and wiping it off then allow 2 to 3 days to dry, coat with a spray on rustoleum let dry for about a week then recoat with the same sealer, do bondo work primer and then topcoat with acrylic emanel... maybe. This is not a daily driver and will either be stored in the garage or under a car cover most of the time. what should i change or omit.....Doing all this inside a garage so nothing is exposed to the elements or humidity.
Please let me know what i need to change or do if this is the wrong way to go about this.
Once you convert the rust then run a grinder over the metal to give it some texture then apply your body filler to level the surface. Don't put Rustoleum under the filler, apply the filler directly to the metal pressing the first pass hard into the scratches so that it bites well. Prime and paint over the metal and filler after you're done sanding the filler.
When i used the phosphoric acid i sparayed it on the bare surface, let it soak for a couple of minutes then wiped it off with a lot of clean microfiber rags (get them for FREE" then scuffed the surface with 80 grit dry sanding blocks. wiped again with dry cloth. so far so good??? the panels will be sitting for a while (couple of weeks) before i get ready to do anything else with them, do i need to go ahead and put on coarse bondo, let dry rand come back to them later??. Or go haead and get bondo close, prime or seal and then come back to them later?? now all i have to do, i guess is sandblast off the rustoleum already on there. Are the panels that are already sealed with sealer alright to bondo over, i want to put a skim coat over the entire car just to be able to cover minor imperfections. I know.. a lot of questions but i want this to last at least a few years without having to worry about rust pops etc. i cant afford to spend several hundred on preperation.
Thanx in advance
You can put your filler over "decent" primer but putting filler over other coatings is a crap shoot. There's no guarantee that other coatings will be a good foundation for the filler. If you're using primer from an aerosol can you may be better off removing it prior to applying filler but, if it's "good" aerosol primer, you're probably ok. Be sure to apply the primer glossy wet so that it bonds well with the surface.
If the panels are going to be stored for several days it would be best to have them coated with primer. If the filler work needs to be done after the primer is on then just scuff the primer with some 80 grit prior to applying the filler.
After you level the filler it would be best to coat the surface with primer before you store it for any length of time.
Well i sanded everything off with 120, retreated with acid and rinsed it off completely, after wiping and blowing everything dry waited a couple of days, resanded with 120, wiped it all of with laquer thinner then applied all of my bondo. allowed it to dry for a day and blocked it "close" with 120, primer it with high build primer sealer for now. hoping this is right. will go back when i get all the panels to this step and resand with 120 and put on last skim coat of bondo and prime, scuff, prime, scuff on and on until i am happy with the smoothness of it. then let everything sit in the gaage until the weather warms up a lot more than 50*. will not be using that zinnzer primer sealer at all unless anyone here thinks it will be an asset at any time. I am not using any rattle cans for any of this project. 1 door and 1 fender done, got a lot more panels left to go before i tackle the main body, yes all the panels are removed so i can do the backside of everything. Lot to go and only 4 months to finish it all....
Another question... i have sprayed the zinnzer sealerr on the rest of the car after i sanded it down, there is very little rust or body work to be done, should i remove it only in places i have to do bodywork and primer sealer over that when i am ready?? or remove it and start over.....
couple of things...don't use lacquer thinner for cleaning, go out and buy a dedicated wax and grease remover for your cleaning step. Second, get rid of any zinnser primer that is on the vehicle. That stuff is for priming walls and other household items and has no place anywhere on your vehicle.
I absolutely agree, don't use lacquer thinner to clean the surface. Use grease and wax remover dispensed from a pump sprayer or from a pressurized sprayer like the one below. Don't pour it on a cloth and wipe it on, spray it on and wipe it off while still wet.Originally Posted by BradNes1
I like using "good" paper towels to absorb the wet solvent off the surface then toss the towel and use another for the next spot. Doing this helps guarantee that I don't get any cross contamination and the surface gets real clean. I usually clean in this manor before I start my prep and again after blowing off the car and before using a tack cloth prior to painting.
Ok i am following everyones advice here, went to local paint supplier here and quart of wax and grease remover was $21... 2 other places
$16 and $28 there..... OH DAYUM... i figure i will use at least a couple of gallons before i am through isn't there any other alternative or is this just a rip off price.
BTW I use the zinnzer at work (industrial Laundry) all the time on sheet metal and stainless steel cabinets and machinery exposed to a lot more than i could ever encounter with my car, acids, alkalai's, underwater and dry conditions and have never in 9 years there had to ever repaint anything covered with it anytime before our 4 year scheduled repaints. Even in the places it gets chipped off for some reason there isnt any active rust under it. We have found that this is the ONLY sealer and rust preventative that will work with stainless steel and galvanized steel so I figure if it works there it should be a great sealer for my car.... maybe, maybe not.......
I don't know Zinnzer so I can't comment on it's performance. We've used a large number of the products in the automotive paint world to clean the surface and some are more expensive than others. What we've found is that most grease and wax remover will do the job when used properly. Some evaporate too fast and some dry too slowly, so find one that you like and stay with it. Spray it on out of a pump (Windex) sprayer or one similar to my previous post and absorb it off with clean paper towels.
If you use products from other industries they may work and they may not. If the project isn't worth using the recommended products and procedures then give other stuff a try but we can only recommend what has worked for us.
Could you please provide a link to that Zinnser product? I have used several of their primers, for wood, drywall, and concrete, and they are damn good. For a car? I'll never say never, but I use epoxy to prime bare metal.
Decades ago I worked as a deckhand on oil tugboats. First boat out, it didn't take them long to realise that I was a good painter. You never stop painting these boats- when you're done, you go right back and start over. So I really enjoyed the painting. Anyway, we used this yellow zinc primer. It worked really well on the boats, and I wondered if it would be any good for a beater paint job. I brushed/rolled it on, so I guess it would have to be thinned for spraying. I never did find out, and always wondered how well it would work. I did do a cheap paint job on a car a long time ago; I bought some tractor paint at Farm and Fleet, sprayed it with a borrowed spray gun and compressor, and it looked pretty good and more importantly, it lasted the life of the car. But now I stick to conventional products.
As far as Rustoleum, that stuff will give you fits if you ever try to refinish the car correctly. It is so incompatible with anything else, even primers it seems. It is very durable paint (except for UV), and I'm using some right now- on the wood trim in my basement shop. That's about what it's good for.
You are the one you've been waiting for.
Here's a link to Zinsser, it looks like it's on the same page as Rustoleum as far as quality products.
LINK
I got a Tbird from a guy who sprayed the whole car flat black rustoleum and when I tried to remove it that stuff just gooed up and clogge the paper had to use paint stripper to get it to move.
I sprayed on my first coat thinned 10% by weight with paint thinner, not mineral spirits, sanded really good after a days dry time, the second time sprayed it straight out of the can as recommended, went on really thick and dried in about 3 days. it actually sands and fills like high build primer, but went ahead and sanded all of it off that i could with 80 and left it at that. the places i will have to use bondo i am stripping it completely off about 3" around the area, scuffing it with 120 before adding filler. There are some places i wont be able to completely remove it before priming but most of those areas are either covered with trim or other things. after using this stuff for 8 years i know its good stuff but i dont want to take a chance that the reducer or something else will mess with it later on. at work wwe have always just used the sealer and then synthetic enamel straight over it. I do have a test panel at work that is an old electrical cabinet, sprayed it with laquer thinner on one side and acrylic enamel reducer on the other to see if it happens to lift or something. Put on top of the boiler where it stays a constant 315*, (after drying a couple of hours of course) and going to leave it there for a couple of weeks and see what happens. That will determine as to whether or not i need to go ahead and last it off the hard to get to places.
Len and all the others in here, i do thank you for your straight forward advice so far and will more than likely be looking for more later on. I have been looking around a lot of the paint and body forums lately but this is the best and friendliest i have ever came across.
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