Did I get ripped off on paint? $50 for a pint of sh%$t

[djenyc]

I got a pint of paint from a local auto paint shop to repaint hood and fender on an old Civic. They said I needed 2K BC/CC - so I paid $50 for a pint of base. It was going to be another $50 of $60 for a clear, so I just got the base and catalyst (4:1). It seemed like a lot, but I figured this stuff was better than going to home depot and asking them to color match some rustoleum.

So 2 weeks ago I finished priming (Kirker 2K Rapid Prime) and sprayed the first coat of base. Went on fine, though had a couple runs on the fender and it was a bit thin in a couple spots. I was spraying with 1.0 mm touch up gun so had it reduced with 10% urethane reducer. This past weekend I sanded out a couple runs and was getting ready to spray the second coat of base.

Before painting I was gonna do a wipe down. Just lightly spray a bit of acetone from a spray bottle and QUICKLY wipe off with a cloth. I did it on a few paint jobs before, never a prob. But with this paint - it WIPED RIGHT OFF LIKE PEANUT BUTTER!!!!

What a heck is wrong with this paint???? Can't take a split sec of acetone????? It's not like I hosed it with solvent and let it puddle and sit for an hour.... I thought this 2K paints were supposed to be tough, did my jobber rip me off??? For the price I paid for a pint of this crap, I could have gotten like 2 gallons of alkyd enamel at the local hardware store that they were even gonna color match and it would be tougher I'm sure.

2K paints aren't suppose to just wipe off like that, is that right??

[RockinRob]

what brand of paint - what are the numbers on the can?

why did you use acetone?

[Bob K]

You need to apply clear coat immediately after the base coat. They aren’t meant to be used separately. Base has no ability to live in the real world uncovered. Clear coat is an integral part of the combination. There is a short window of time when the clear must be applied. As I understand it, the base is partially dissolved by the application of clear and they bond together at the time the clear is applied. If the base is not fresh then the bond is compromised.

Bob K

[Choppers_rule]

I pay around $50/ pint for PPG DBC and they are tough paint!

[djenyc]

what brand of paint - what are the numbers on the can?

why did you use acetone?

Hey, don't know what brand, they put catalyst and base in to plain cans and said it was 2K and said to mix it 4:1. I did not think I'd have a problem, as this shop wasn't like a retail store, they mostly cater to local body shops. I got there a couple hours before closing and they had a few local painter hanging around with beers in their hands so I thought that place was legit.

And I use acetone cause it dries quick so I know there is not going to be a problem later. But apparently this paint is as tough as household latex, so ended up using mineral spirits, which I guess is fine, but takes a while to dry.

[djenyc]

You need to apply clear coat immediately after the base coat. They aren’t meant to be used separately. Base has no ability to live in the real world uncovered. Clear coat is an integral part of the combination. There is a short window of time when the clear must be applied. As I understand it, the base is partially dissolved by the application of clear and they bond together at the time the clear is applied. If the base is not fresh then the bond is compromised.
Bob K

Well, may be that's a problem. Dunno. Can somebody confirm that?

I always thought that clear was just for people who don't have a buffer or don't like to use it for some reason.

[another2centsworth]

What did your paint supplier say about all of this stuff you were doing and how you were going about it?
Ask him for instruction sheets on the base and clear.

[SamG]

No, you should find the tech sheets for your product and read them.

Basecoat is only a colorant. It is not designed to be sanded, wiped with wax/grease remover (certainly not acetone), buffed, or anything else...You spray it on until you have adequate coverage, then apply clearcoat. The clearcoat is the gloss.

Years ago, there were basecoat additives that went into say, Centari A/E that made it a basecoat and allowed you to apply an A/E clearcoat on top of it (#780 if I remember correctly). That Centari basecoat was just a modified Acrylic Enamel...You could also do the same with lacquer basecoats/clearcoats...however, Today's basecoats are totally different technologies

[djenyc]

No, you should find the tech sheets for your product and read them.

Basecoat is only a colorant. It is not designed to be sanded, wiped with wax/grease remover (certainly not acetone), buffed, or anything else...You spray it on until you have adequate coverage, then apply clearcoat. The clearcoat is the gloss.

Years ago, there were basecoat additives that went into say, Centari A/E that made it a basecoat and allowed you to apply an A/E clearcoat on top of it (#780 if I remember correctly). That Centari basecoat was just a modified Acrylic Enamel...You could also do the same with lacquer basecoats/clearcoats...however, Today's basecoats are totally different technologies

Ah, now that makes sense!

I actually told the jobber I wanted single stage, but this guys are anal about things like that, and would only go by what teh computer told em, so it said BC/CC for honda, so they'd only do BC/CC, no single stage.

I also wanted them to mix some pearl paint for a lincoln mark 8, and they said that thing was 3 different paints, 2 base, 1 clear, wtf, would run like 170 bucks to do touchup, can't they just try and get it close, I'm not picky about that sort of things, but NOOO. So ended up just using some white zero rust on that lincoln, and it actually came out good, and was not even color matched or anything

But you make a good point that base coat is probably just a part of some paint system that kinda weak on it's own, so I gotta look for supplier that just do single stage and doesn't blow me off like that plus charge insane dollars. I don't do restoration car, just spray some beaters, i don't even level dent or anything, just lay some paint and it looks just as good as the next car in the parking lot, and I did not have to pay 20k for it, lol

[another2centsworth]

These need to be shot base/clear not single stage.

Pearls are are usually three stage......base coat/midcoat/clear (tri-color)

Not everybody is trying to pull one over on you.

[djenyc]

These need to be shot base/clear not single stage.

Pearls are are usually three stage......base coat/midcoat/clear (tri-color)

Not everybody is trying to pull one over on you.

Ye, I get it now that they were not pulling one, just not willing to cater to my price/quality requirement - offered me a quality level set by local collision shops that do insurance repairs on late model cars, that's not effective for a low end budget repair. In the end I did get my hood painted for 50 bucks and it's color matched and looks decent, as I buffed it good. But I was surprised that it would lift up like that from a bit of acetone heh, So I got another old beater I gotta do some touch-up and wheel arches on, so I'll have to look around see who can mix it single stage

[Dave C]

Acetone is nasty stuff, probably the most active solvent in my shop. It's the only thing that cleans fiberglass resin off tools. Wiping base coats, if done at all, should be with a very mild solvent like R-M 901.

[djenyc]

Acetone is nasty stuff, probably the most active solvent in my shop. It's the only thing that cleans fiberglass resin off tools. Wiping base coats, if done at all, should be with a very mild solvent like R-M 901.

So you saying don't use acetone?

- I'm going back and forth in circle here, cause I used to use mineral spirits for the longest time and then I read an article that said it takes a while for it to dry, being that it's slow evaporating, and that guy in the article said how he'd get spots in his paint from mineral spirits not fully evaporating before the paint gets sprayed. So I switched to acetone, as I know it dryes really fast and I don't like to sit and wait around for stuff to dry. And also I read in another place that all this 2k products suppose to be tough once cured and don't get dissolved in anything like those enamels do, so I thought acetone would be ok because of that. But now seeing that I get a problem with it, so may be I'll go back to mineral spirits and just hit it with a hair dryer or something.

[Len]

Prior to spraying paint the surface should be wiped with grease and wax remover. Once the spraying starts there should be no need to wipe the surface unless there is some type of problem.

[djenyc]

Prior to spraying paint the surface should be wiped with grease and wax remover. Once the spraying starts there should be no need to wipe the surface unless there is some type of problem.

Yes, grease and wax remover before spraying - that's what I used acetone for, cause it dries quick and cleans good, but as I said, I'll be switching back to mineral spirits, seeing that acetone gets a bit crazy with some paints