Hello, new member. Going to paint a bicycle frame, have questions

[dust]

Ok I have decieded to go with the Iwata LPH-80, I had a look at duponts site and they have epoxy primers and polyurethane base/top/clears. Can I mix these how I want or? I mean I dont see if they belong to a "system".

Is there such a thing as polyurethane primer?
Is there such a thing as epoxy top/clear coat or is epoxy only used for primer usually?

What is the best combo?

Which needle size and nozzle should I get?
E4 or E2, 1.0 or 1.2mm? Is there any drawback to use a 1.2mm instead of 1.0mm, will the results be better with 1.0mm well theoretically?

I can get zinc (gray, probably not etching) primer and epoxy primer for free or very cheap at work (I dont know what brands yet), any chance that any of duponts polyurethanes wont stick to this?

They seem to have 30-40 or more types of polyurethanes and many epoxy primers at dupont, I just dont know how I'm supposed to pick 1 of them and what the tradeoffs are or if its even worth thinking about, is there a big difference?

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...oduct/dcf.html
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...oduct/dic.html

[Len]

Ok I have decieded to go with the Iwata LPH-80, I had a look at duponts site and they have epoxy primers and polyurethane base/top/clears. Can I mix these how I want or? I mean I dont see if they belong to a "system".

Is there such a thing as polyurethane primer?
Is there such a thing as epoxy top/clear coat or is epoxy only used for primer usually?

What is the best combo?

Which needle size and nozzle should I get?
E4 or E2, 1.0 or 1.2mm? Is there any drawback to use a 1.2mm instead of 1.0mm, will the results be better with 1.0mm well theoretically?

I can get zinc (gray, probably not etching) primer and epoxy primer for free or very cheap at work (I dont know what brands yet), any chance that any of duponts polyurethanes wont stick to this?

They seem to have 30-40 or more types of polyurethanes and many epoxy primers at dupont, I just dont know how I'm supposed to pick 1 of them and what the tradeoffs are or if its even worth thinking about, is there a big difference?

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...oduct/dcf.html
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...oduct/dic.html

I use a 1.0 on my detail gun but if you're going to spray primer you may want to get a 1.2 also.

As far as which DuPont products to use I'd recommend that you talk to your paint supplier to see what your options are. Most suppliers are willing to help since you're buying their products. I'm not a DuPont user but some of the other guys here may be able to make a recommendation based or products that they use.

[Harry Phinney]

Ok I have decieded to go with the Iwata LPH-80, I had a look at duponts site and they have epoxy primers and polyurethane base/top/clears. Can I mix these how I want or? I mean I dont see if they belong to a "system".

Is there such a thing as polyurethane primer?
Is there such a thing as epoxy top/clear coat or is epoxy only used for primer usually?

I don't use DuPont paints, so I can't offer specific advice on products. As Len said, your dealer should be able to recommend specific products. Generally, polyurethane primers are not suitable as direct-to-metal primers. They are most commonly used as "surfacers" (i.e. low-build fillers) or as "sealers" and are applied over either epoxy or etch primers. Epoxy resins are more susceptible to UV damage than are urethanes, so they are not typically used in topcoats.

What is the best combo?

You'll get different opinions from different people and from different manufacturers. My impression (again, as a non-user) is that DuPont tends to recommend an etch primer with a "2K" polyurethane primer over the top, but they do also offer epoxy primer. In painting bicycles I don't use any 2K polyurethane primer. I use an epoxy or epoxy/acrylic hybrid primer followed by either a polyurethane sealer or my base color coats, depending on the circumstances.

Which needle size and nozzle should I get?
E4 or E2, 1.0 or 1.2mm? Is there any drawback to use a 1.2mm instead of 1.0mm, will the results be better with 1.0mm well theoretically?

Specifically for painting bicycles I use the E2 aircap, and while I'll generally use a 1.2 for primer, if I could only have one nozzle it'd be the 1.0. Depending on the primer you may need to reduce it some to spray it smoothly with the 1.0, but the 1.0 will be better for the base and clear.

I can get zinc (gray, probably not etching) primer and epoxy primer for free or very cheap at work (I dont know what brands yet), any chance that any of duponts polyurethanes wont stick to this?

There's always a chance of failure. If the zinc primer is a 1-K product (i.e. there's no activator/hardener involved) then I'd avoid it. I've yet to find an epoxy primer that's incompatible with any automotive topcoats, but I can't claimed to have tried all combinations...

Harry Phinney

[dust]

Thanks for your replies!

Well I guess I made the right choice of gun, I ordered the E4 (I think) 1.0mm Iwata LPH 80, but it hasnt showed up yet, I also ordered the "mini" 3M cup system and an adapter. No compressor yet tho, or paint stripper, but its cold/wet here so I havent been very inspired to research this further.

As soon as the gun arrives I guess I will have to call the automotive paintshops here, I know there are a few, just hope the wheather will be better by then so I can get started.

I read about a guy on the internet trying to get some paint for his fork (to exactly match his frame), I noticed it was one of Duponts polyurethanes, it was a white one, nothing special. He was quoted $250, it sounded awfully expensive to me. Dont know what quantity tho.

Is this the money I should expect to pay?

[amcast562]

Hey DUST! di you get that bike painted? Im currently in the final stages of painting my mountain bike custom.

[dust]

No not yet, I have had too much to do lately (and it took forever for my gun to arrive), but I will get it painted as soon as I can.

[sagola-spain]

I´ve painted some of my frames, with waterborne color (audi white for the DH one, gorgeus) and HS clear, most of them with the mini xtreme (what else...), and did it all with 1.0 nozzle, no reason to use a bigger one, if you don´t want runs of course...

The 475 is mostly for aerography and small details.

[lousoso]

dust im new as well to the forum , but i am a experience automotive painter. sata mini is the sh** works great. sata and iwattas are the best guns to buy but you need to kow how to use then. use plastic liners it if you want to shot upside down, make sure the liner has no air between gun and paint. eitching pring has to be very thin coats almost see threw, the cover with a regular 2k prime.then sand and shoot base, use 1000gr. dry or 2000 wet for matillics solid color 600 to 800 dry and 1000g wet. clear coat with two coats first coat lite second coat wet. helpful tip with sata gun one and half thread showing on material nob and fan open to full and psi at 27. sorry about the spelling and grammer hope i was a help

[rons]

I think you could probably paint outside in the open air instead of in a close area with a fan. Much safer as far as ISO's go. As long as you find a good location where you won't bother neighbors and its not windy. Perhaps paint during the day when other people are at work and kids are in school etc. I have a friend that does this all the time with good results. Of course, wear a good respirator with the appropriate type of filters for paints containing ISO's too.

This is bad advice. Not only is it bad for the environment but the painter can get
a heavy fine if caught.

[Hoko]

At one time I was thinking about selling Sagola because I liked the quality of their guns however their distribution is so limited that parts could be quite difficult to get. I deal with several of the largest warehouse distributors in the USA and none of them carry this brand.

I have several small guns and have sprayed single stage, bc/cc and some primers out of just about all of them but I've never needed any other tip than the 1.0. However if you're going to spray thin lacquer you may need a .8 or if you're spraying a heavier primer you may need a 1.2 but I don't see much need for other tips.

The SRi W is what I use and sell mostly. This gun atomizes very well and can be used to spray both small objects and panels up to the size of a bumper cover or door panel. The SRi W is probably the most used gun in our shop since it's so versatile and lays the paint on so smoothly.

My warehouse shows the Sata Minijet 4 w/1.0 tip and 150ml cup for $339.50. The shipping amount would depend on your location but I wouldn't think it would be over $10.

Hi Len, I'm new to your site and found you with a search for the SATA Minijet 4 HVLP paint gun. I would be wanting it with the 1.0 and 1.2 tips so probably not much price difference there. I am also looking for prices for the SATA KLC HVLP primer gun and for the SATA RP Digital paint gun for clear and the SATA 0/444 Air filtration system. I'm also interested in the carbon filter belt and respirator helmet to hook up to the air filter system. I learned through SATA searches that they dont allow internet sales so I was glad to find that you could do it through this forum. I just needed the prices so I can see how much I am going to need to set up shop. Thx

[Len]

Hi Len, I'm new to your site and found you with a search for the SATA Minijet 4 HVLP paint gun. I would be wanting it with the 1.0 and 1.2 tips so probably not much price difference there. I am also looking for prices for the SATA KLC HVLP primer gun and for the SATA RP Digital paint gun for clear and the SATA 0/444 Air filtration system. I'm also interested in the carbon filter belt and respirator helmet to hook up to the air filter system. I learned through SATA searches that they dont allow internet sales so I was glad to find that you could do it through this forum. I just needed the prices so I can see how much I am going to need to set up shop. Thx

The MiniJet 4 with a 1.0 tip and .125 plastic cup is $379.50
The 1.2 tip for the Minijet is $149.60

No KLC available at this time.

SATA JET 3000 RP DIGITAL 1.4MM $749
SATA JET 4000 RP DIGITAL 1.4MM $759
Both of the above come with RPS cups

The 0/444 filter is $1169.

sata 4000 RP.jpg
Sata 4000 RP

[Hoko]

The MiniJet 4 with a 1.0 tip and .125 plastic cup is $379.50
The 1.2 tip for the Minijet is $149.60

No KLC available at this time.

SATA JET 3000 RP DIGITAL 1.4MM $749
SATA JET 4000 RP DIGITAL 1.4MM $759
Both of the above come with RPS cups

The 0/444 filter is $1169.

sata 4000 RP.jpg
Sata 4000 RP

Thx I appreciate that information.