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Thread: Paint mixing machine

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    367

    Default Paint mixing machine

    Where can I buy a setup to where i can mix my own auto paint at my shop???

    I do alot of wholesale work and I am getting tired of driving every day back and forth to the paint supply house.

  2. #2
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    Nov 2005
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    Montreal, Canada
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    Default there are alot of used ones on the market right now...

    With the waterborne paints comming there are many solvant set-ups being offered for sale and most with complete paint supply inlcuded.

    If you want a set-up, it can be arranged through your jobber. They are expensive though when you buy them. Try to get one on consignment if you can. If you buy enough paint, they will fight to lend you one....

    I would not buy a new solvant set-up right now. They are on their way out, I would go for a waterborne system instead...
    My 2 cents worth...
    Serge

  3. #3
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    Nov 2008
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    Dundalk, MD
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    264

    Default

    what are you currently using, bc/cc or single stage, or both, depending on the actual job? Matrix has a great system...the one that i use, i can mix 2 different base coats (a higher quality base {MPB} for HIGH DOLLAR jobs, which we can put a lifetime warranty on..and a cheaper base {MSB}, which covers almost as good at the MPB, but the colors dont always match exactly to the OEM colors, but are GREAT for cheaper all-overs, yet STILL better then ANYTHING you will get from Maaco or Earl Scheib...this one we only offer a 5 year warranty with, but if taken care of, will last just as long as the MPB without die back or fading). We can also mix 2 types of single stage (same deal as the BC {MCU and MAU}, but the warranties are only 5 years {MCU} and 3 years {MAU})

    But before you even CONSIDER getting a complete mixing bank, look into you state 'CLEAN AIR' regulations for paints and how long you have before you must switch to water-borne. If you only have about 3 years left, as we do in MD {2011 is the deadline}, take into consideration the quantity of work you do and HOW MUCH paint you may possibly use before you have to switch. I'd basically take the AVERAGE spending of up to the previous 3 years work and figure that times how many years you have left. THEN start asking around from various different jobbers about what they would, or CAN, do for ya. I wouldn't jump into a water-borne mixing bank just yet, as the technology isn't quite flawless yet. By that, i mean a single painter can spray it in a mediocre setting (72-85F, low humidity) and spray without any problems. That SAME painter will have uncorrectable problems when the temperature rises, lowers, the humdity rises or lowers, air flow changes, etc. These may or may not be problems with the painter himself. These are problems that TECH-wise have not been accounted for. in a "PERFECT WORLD", water-borne paints work great, but when have you EVER seen this so-called "perfect world" that some techs describe?

    at any rate, what you will try to calculate is the amount you are spending NOW: gas to travel to and from your current jobber and the amount you spend with the jobber (on average) compared to the amount that you will spend to initially set-up a mixing bank (remember: you need ALL of the tints for the paint types that you want to be able to spray). You will possibly save on gas, as the jobber may go out of their way to deliver product, beings that you are now pretty well LOCKED IN with them unless you find another local jobber with the same paint line products...most unlikely, as most manufacturers will only supply one jobber per a certain distance to avoid arguments. like with matrix, the only LOCAL jobber is Premier Refinish Supply, and they actually brought a store into Baltimore (previously, they were bringing us paint from pretty much DC...like a block from the MD/DC line) once they got more accounts in and around Baltimore.

    back on topic, consider how often you will go through tints/toners. This one is actually a bit harder to figure as most likely you don't do, for instance, only BRIGHT ATLANTIC BLUE cars. each formula will be different, so you kinda have to guess-timate that one. The only really good part about that one is that you can now mix up as little as ONE OUNCE of paint, depending on the formulation and how well you are with manually tinting colors, which will stop you from buying pints of paint to blend a small ding in the middle of a fender...thats actually another topic that you will want to consider when thinking about getting a mixing bank.

    That all being said, basically, you will have to sit down and REALLY THINK about this change over. There is a lot of training that one SHOULD go through when acquring a paint system (color theory/tinting classes, PROPERLY using a mixing scale - its BASICALLY self explanatory for just following the formula, reducing, and spraying, but the scale is capable of doing SOOO much more when used properly...my scale has settings that i never have and most likely never WILL use, it COSTS like $500 if you were to buy it, but it was GIVEN to us when we brought in the mixing bank, so i guess it was worth every penny we spent on it...lol). Depending on how big of an operation you have and how much you actually would USE the mixing bank, it may OR may not be beneficial to you.
    There IS, however, always the additional opportunity to get into other money making operations to help pay for the system and toners...touch-up paints, selling mixed paint to other local shops when they need it like YESTURDAY and someone forgot to order it...dont laugh, we've done it. Another shop, actually, our CLOSEST competition, called us up a few months back and bascially said they ran into a problem, and the paint either wasn't ordered or was misplaced, however that one might have happened...bottom line, they needed some paint RIGHT THEN and the jobber couldnt get it to them until the following day, beings that it was like 3:30pm. So, we sold them a pint of reduced paint rather then tell them that it was their problem or that WE could do the work for them if they wanted to sublet the work. another shop called us up a few weeks ago, said they had a 57 chevy that we painted all over, and i KNEW they just happened to be closer to the owner then we were, which was WHY They got the job...bascially, they used dupont and couldnt seem to get the color to blend properly, even after their regular jobber took some part (dont remember which, as the car didnt have a traditional gas door)...i REMEMBERED the car, so i knew the paint code, printed out a sticker, mixed up 8 ounces of color, reduced it for them giving them a pint, since they dont have matrix reducers, and sold it to them with a 125% markup on OUR cost...and they STILL said that was like $30 cheaper then the sprayable pint of DuPont they originally bought...called up about an hour or 2 later and said it blended PERFECTLY...lol...

    well, that should basically give you something to consider when inquiring about a machine...let me know what happens...i dont know what you are used to using, but if you have ever heard of Matrix Automotive Finish and ever consider trying it, let me know...i can get in touch with some guys FROM matrix and see if they can get you in touch with a fairly local jobber and find out for ya what kind of consignment deal they can get for you. i'm on very good terms with Matrix (directly, not the jobber, although we are on great terms with our jobber as well) so i can see if i can't pull some strings if you are at all interested once you make the above considerations.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2005
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    Montreal, Canada
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    Default In my local area right now....

    There are 3 set-ups for sale used...

    1 Spies
    1 PPG Deltron (DBC)
    1 Prospray

    All for less than a grand, scales, paint chips and all....all with paint in them...
    My 2 cents worth...
    Serge

  5. #5
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    Nov 2008
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    Dundalk, MD
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge
    There are 3 set-ups for sale used...

    1 Spies
    1 PPG Deltron (DBC)
    1 Prospray

    All for less than a grand, scales, paint chips and all....all with paint in them...

    wow, that is actually EXTREMELY cheap compared to what I have in mind that one might invest in a set up, however that could be due to BOTH of these factors:
    1. i am considering getting a NEW machine, which mmooney84 wouldnt need if he could locate a USED machine or entire set-up; and

    2. i am considering a machine similar (not neccesarily MAtrix, but comparible) to the set-up that i have, which obviously he ALSO wouldn't neccesarily need unless he does a lot of different types of work (ie. production with a short term warranty, quality with a longer warranty, custom, AND restoration (custom, OEM comparable BC/CC, or original-looking SS, obviously not laquer or straight enamel).

    Unless you actually USE all of the paint options regularly, the only thing you would need at MOST is one each of SS and BC options, but you could also stick to BC and buy mixed paint for other options to save some money and on-hand product.

    The cost i have in mind includes everything that i mentioned in my previous post...MPB, MSB, MCU, MAU, PLUS i neglected to mention that we also have toners for matrix's FX series colors for custom paint jobs (candies, hypnotics, metallic fx, etc...see MATRIX FX SERIES PAINT LINE for all of the custom options that we have.

    IF you can locate a PPG or Spies set up for $1000, even if it IS used, i would say go ahead and make the investment. But, I would first familiarize myself with the paint line in mind to know what you might expect to pay for replacement toners/tints. I am not saying that it is WRONG, but i would be iffy about the system until i was sure that i was getting everything that i would need to atleast mix the colors. obviously you would have to buy reducers/BC activators in addition to the used mixing system, unless there is some to go along with the machine, but some silver and red toners can cost up to $150-$200 per qt/gallon depending on what size can they are sold in.
    For my machine, there are 4 silvers that pretty much only come in gallon cans unless the jobber tries to sell a "pour-off" quart, poured out of a larger can (the gallon cans). Just those 4 toners run $600.
    im not trying to scare you away from the machine idea, but these are the costs (or atleast LIST cost) for only 4 toners that you will most commonly use in colors for newer cars.
    and remember, the cost DOES seem high for a gallon of toner, but when you start mixing colors, the measurements are in weight GRAMS. you most likely already know this, but there are 28 grams in an OUNCE, 32 ounces in a quart, 4 quarts to a gallon...thats 3584 GRAMS per gallon (roughly), and even silver colors, for a pint, will have about 250 grams of any one silver toner, plus other toners to create the color for the job.

    Hmmm...i hope i am not getting too far ahead of your original question about simply investing in a machine for you. Before getting more into detail about the actual MIXING PROCESS, i think i will let you first make a decision as to whether or not to actually GET the machine before i start confusing you and steering (or rather scaring) you away from the machine. It actually SOUNDS more confusing then it is to physically USE the machine/system.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    West [by GOD] Virginia
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    407

    Default how much do you spend

    on paint a month? if you're spending $2,500. or more a month, paint co's will put their system in for free. you may have to sign a contract with them & buy the next round of color. in the old days shop owners bought systems, now if your busy enough, they want your biz. mixing shops are the top of the food chain for a pbe jobber & the paint company.
    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Alfred E. Newman

  7. #7
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    Nov 2005
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    Default Cheep....they are....

    They are all going to the dumpsters in a year or so...so no wonder they are cheep...

    A friend of mine made himself a mini set-up. Since he only does touch ups (small pannel blends, he was a mobile guy before) he only needs small quantities so he bought a RM paint system (basecoat only) but without the mixer wall. He keeps his paints in squirt bottles which he fills from quarts and the expensive ones he has filled at his jobber...Shakes the bottles real well before mixing...voila...his paint set-up, much like a mobile one, fits in a couple of deep drawers!...

    So he basically got the scale, the computer and the formulaes + the chips...then bought toners in small quantity...that's it...and he is independent....he is also a great colorist...

    That's another way of going about it.
    My 2 cents worth...
    Serge

  8. #8
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    Jan 2008
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    West [by GOD] Virginia
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    Default i also know

    3 guys that make a ok living doing work like that. 2 of 'em do work for several big dealerships. stuff deemed too small for the dealerships own body shop. those 2 guys do real good. they keep it small & turn & burn...good profit.
    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Alfred E. Newman

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Where is the best place to buy a used system.. I hope I dont have to switch to waterbase..

    I currently use bc/cc.

    I go to the local dupoint dealer and buy nason to dupoint depending on the job..

    I mainly just do small jobs for wholesale dealers so buying 25 dollar pint and gas driving back and forth adds up over a month.

    But I usually only paint every other day.. I dont mind buying a setup if over a year if it will save me money.. I probably spend $600 dollars a month on paint right now.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge
    There are 3 set-ups for sale used...

    1 Spies
    1 PPG Deltron (DBC)
    1 Prospray

    All for less than a grand, scales, paint chips and all....all with paint in them...

    I would be interested in the pro spray system. PM Me more info if you have it

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
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    Default Finding the adds...

    Sory for the long links, I hope they work...this is a local web add site that is known for equipment....look at kijiji also, you find them there often...

    They are in french...so you can chance a call. If no one there speaks english, I can serve as an interpreter....

    The prospray set-up guy advertizes 24,000$ but says in the add make me an offer...he has alot of clear, primer and extra toners. He says his cost is 24K...

    I can't find the spies set-up anymore...but they surface once and a while, more lately as guys are upgrading or getting ready for water...so its mainly the large shops that are moving...

    The ppg set-up...

    http://www.lespac.com/search/detail...._region=&prio=


    The prospray....

    http://www.lespac.com/search/detail....o_region=&prio=
    My 2 cents worth...
    Serge

  12. #12
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    Jan 2009
    Posts
    637

    Default

    24,000 dollar america money for pro spray mixing system?? Am I Understanding that correct??

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    367

    Default

    I seen a nice setup on ebay of matrix systems for like $4 grand. But it is like 1000 miles away with no shipping.. I might just keep checking there and when i find one closer rent a uhaul trailer and load up.

  14. #14

    Default

    I asked my jobber about getting one ,the only problem i had was finding one small enough for my needs . He had offered 3 systems to me for free and they were all doubles ,the 4th was a ppg single which was just right .

    If you are on good terms with your jobber it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Just keep asking.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    1,063

    Default

    If you are in Canada it makes no sense to get a solvent system,they will be outlawed Jan1/2010.It will be extremely difficult if not impossible to get toners after that.

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