View Full Version : Hood on 57
12-06-2005, 02:26 PM
Hey everybody, i'ts your favorite little pain in the a-- again. Got the hood off my 57 and sandblasted Saturday. 80 degrees here in Texas Saturday, 29 today. Any how it had a pretty serious dent in the curved part behind where the hood rockets go. I hammered it back better than I thought I would be able to, just a little filler needed now. But the hood skin seems like it is too flexible. Wants to flex up and down real easy, not at all as rigid as the skin on the trunk. After looking there are gaps between the skin and the supporting members underneath. Should there be some sort of foam or padding between the support frame and the skin, or is the flex normal? Also it seems as though I could add another cross member and padding accross the center of the hood to support the skin of the hood. I am not building a concours car so the extra center rib would be of no consequence. I am afraid the skin flexing might crack the paint, if I ever get that far. Any advice is appreciated. Ron
12-06-2005, 03:04 PM
Ron, you can buy a kit sprays the midium density foam to take up the gaps between the hood frame and the hood outer skin. I think Lens sells the kit in his store but if not I'm sure he can get such a kit for you. What you explained is a negative drawback for people who choose to have parts acid dipped (dip stripper). I know you said they sandblasted your hood but the blasting operation normally won't remove that foam. Either way there is a kit available for your hood needs.
12-06-2005, 03:44 PM
Thanks Phil, Now that I think about it I found a three or four inch piece of foam on the shop floor. I am poor boying this operation, so I sand blasted the hood myself with a HF blaster, works great by the way. Wife three kids and a mortgage you know. The piece of foam must have fallen out when I moved the hood outside, there was no other foam or anything between the ribs though. I wonder if it was factory or someone put it in later. The hood is the only piece not original to the car. I guess I will buy a kit like you mentioned from Len after I spray. I still am wondering if I need to add another brace accross the middle?
Without going outside and pulling the cover off my 57, I am 99% certain that there is a foam piece sandwiched between the main cross rib and the hood sheetmetal.
Will check on the weekend if you wish.
12-06-2005, 10:26 PM
What I am worried about is the "sandblasting". You should NEVER sandblast any sheetmetal. It WILL warp it 99 times out of a 100. Each piece of sand is like a tiny hammer putting a "ding" in the metal. It pushes the molecules of metal around and stretches the heck out of it. Warpage is VERY common when sandblasting.
“Basics of Basics” Flat panel repair
By Brian Martin
When you have a large flat panel that is flexing the first thing you need to do is find out why. Sometimes you can stop it, other times you can’t. But if you can stop it, you’ll have a much easier time with the body filler work. Hoods, decklids, and the roof are particularly difficult because the heat and weight of the plastic filler can have an effect on the metal. The good news is many times it is very easy to repair.
First off, there is no such thing as a “flat” panel. All panels that appear flat actually have a slight crown or gentle bow up in the middle. Go to a flat panel and lay a straight edge across it. You will see that the straight edge in not touching the panel at the on the outer ends. If the panel were perfectly flat it would appear to the eye to be concave. It would also have no “body” and flex very easily. This is the problem with your large flexing panel; it has “lost” its crown and is now weak and flexible.
The first place to start your search for a culprit is under the panel. Many panels have inner structure that supports the outer skin. When the outer panel has been damaged the inner structure was bent down along with the outer. This inner structure can be in the form of just a simple inch or so wide support running across the panel to the complete support by a stamped panel that goes covers the underside of the panel. These full inner structures can commonly be found on hoods and decklids. The inner structure can sometimes be bent down, causing your flexing. It usually is very close to the outer skin, with just a thin layer of a foam or urethane adhesive. It may have small “dollops” of this foam or adhesive that has been squished between the inner structure and outer skin or even a thin piece of tarpaper.
You can push up on these low spots to return it to supporting the outer skin, as it should. But it is difficult because you can’t push it past where it needs to be. On this particular type of damage, the inner structure would need to go past the correct shape and then “relax” back down to where it belongs. It can’t do this of course because the outer panel is there and limits the inner structure from going up where it needs to go. Just as with looking at the “big picture” when you look at any dent, you need to search for a kink or bend that is holding the inner structure down in that area. If you apply pressure up on the low area and tap out these kinks, you may get it to stay back in shape. If these methods don’t get it back up to support the outer panel properly, you will need to “shim” between the two panels to get the outer panel up where it belongs. This can be done with sheet of tarpaper or more adhesive. As a last resort a thin piece of wood like a paint stirring stick can be used. Of course, this is a little on the funky side but if you are haven’t been able to correct the problem, something has to be done. What you have to watch out for is applying too much pressure in one area. If you were to force a piece of wood in there, you will likely be making a high spot on the outside. That would just give you in a whole new problem.
Sight down the body lines that are nearest the low, “oil canning” , or just plain flexing area. A body line is effectively the “edge” of the panel. Those crowns in the flat panel that I mention end at the body line. So each area in between the lines is sort of like an individual panel. Look to see if the body line is low, it may be holding down your panel. If it is, you need to push it up. To help you determine how straight the line is sometimes you can use a metal ruler as a “straight edge”. How can this be done on a crowned panel you ask? A metal carpenters yard stick will bend very easily, right? So what you do is lay the yard stick on it’s back against the panel and apply a little pressure on the outward edges low area where the metal is OK. You will then have a “curved straight edge”. I have a drawer with a number of these metal or aluminum rulers in it and find them very useful. I treat them like rice paper and they will last a lifetime.
So lets say that you have found that you have no low spots in the body lines or there were one or two and you repaired them. Now you have to look for something else that is holding the panel down. This can usually be found in the form of a “crown” or “brow”. When you put a dent in any panel the metal has to “go” somewhere. All panels have this crown, right? So as an example picture a metal rod that is 3 feet long. This rod has a slight bend to it. The center of the rod is up from the ends about three inches. If you were to push down on the center, the rod would get “longer”, right? So, if the ends of the rod were clamped in vices, the “extra” rod would force the areas on the sides of where you were pushing to go up. You panel does the same thing only on a much smaller scale. Most brows will be found on the outer edges of a panel, this includes of course at the edge of the body line. They are VERY common around the outer edges of a roof. Search around the outer edges of ANY bent roof and you will find them.
The brow or crown is a U, C, L or even I shaped high spot. In the center of that curved high spot is a low spot, sort of like a “pocket” in the brow. Just one or two of these will make a panel, especially a large panel look like a cotton sheet! What you have to do is to push up on that low spot while tapping down on the brow. When I say “tap” I mean TAP. Just the weight of the hammer bouncing off the brow will do it sometimes. Use a large VERY flat body hammer or a flat body spoon for this repair. If you are careful you can repair these brows with little to no plastic filler. Just take you time and keep checking the area with a block with sand paper or a vexon file if you have one for low and high spots.
Now, if you simply can eliminate the brow and low spot, you have won the battle. If it takes some plastic filler, so be it, you have given the panel it’s strength back and that is what matters.
12-07-2005, 09:11 AM
Thanks Ken, I would be interested in knowing what is supposed to be there whenever you look at your car, no hurry.
12-07-2005, 10:09 AM
Thanks Brian, you like so many here are a genius when it comes to this stuff. First let me explain I turned the pressure on the blaster way down to 35 or 40 psi, backed way off and also used sand I had blasted with several times and held it at a forty five or so degree angle. It was a slow process with the low pressure and "rounded off" sand. Not saying it's a good idea but to my untrained eye It shows no signs of warpage. Barely frosted the metal. In fact it removed the paint only and not any of the light surface rust below the paint. Sound like I maybe dodged a bullet there, live and learn. Won't make that mistake again. I did put a straight edge on the undamaged ridge last night, and low and behold it has a crown in it about a 1/4 to 1/2 in. I then put the straight edge on the damaged ridge and it has a little dip in it, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Almost centered in the ridge from front to back. Looked like even though I pretty much fixed the dent in the ridge, the ridge itself needs to come up to the same crown line as the undamaged side. It also appears if I can raise the ridge back the rest of the dented area may come back to shape at the same time. It makes perfect sense now that the damaged ridge is holding down the metal of the "flat" area in the center section of the hood. Creating a low spot which wants to flex back to it's original position. To make it simple, with your help, I think I have identified the problem. Now the tricky part, how to fix it? My first instinct is to turn the hood upside down and use a block of wood and a mallet to put the curve back in the ridge behind where the hood rocket should go. While suporting the ridge equal distances from the damaged area. If I do this I will have to shape a piece of wood, as there is a crease in the center of the ridge, and also figure it will need to be slightly curved because of the crown. Is this good reasoning? I also thought I might need to cut a template with the shape of the good side to determine where and how much to try and bend the bad side back up to shape. My eyes are not skilled enough to tell this with out something as a gauge. It seems as though the damaged side "dips" down about as much as the crown is up on the other side, meaning I will have about 1/2 to an inch to move the damaged ridge up. let me know what you think, any advice, and suggestions from all are welcome.
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