Lacquer or Single Stage or BCCC [Archive]

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lintmann

02-28-2008, 04:34 PM

AlexeiVT

02-28-2008, 05:18 PM

"Durability" is also sort of a relative terms in consideration of what is "good enough" for the way the car will be treated.

Certainly, no argument that urethane is toughest, followed by a catalyzed enamel, then lacquer...

But, having said that, there are plenty of cars w/ lacquer, that are well cared for, driven, and hold up just fine (and for that matter, survivors).

Meaning, that even if lacquer is less than the "best", it still may be plenty good enough, so long as it's applied properly, and well taken care of.

I think application, taking your time to allow for flash between coats, and possibly approaching the spray sessions w/ adequate time (weeks) between coats, you end up w/ something stable, and less likely to shrink back or spiderweb over time...laquer may not be the prevailing norm these days, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to use it right and have a job last.

I'd say, that so long as the base primer is lacquer, that's always going to be the weak link in terms of putting something else over it (like enamel or urethane).

BUT, just because that is the weak link, doesn't guarantee it'll fail...so, it may make no difference anyway...so why not just stick w/ lacquer the whole way through (it's already started down that way, so why not continue)...on the other hane, if you wanted to opt for bc/cc urethane, and figure the overall cost of hours and materials, could either strip back and start fresh w/ polyster or epoxy (or epoxy as a sealer over the lacquer might get you to a point of going w/ something better from here...sort of approach it like a re-paint over a stable factory substrate).

lintmann

02-28-2008, 07:08 PM

Thanks Alex,

I get your point about durability being a relative term...couldn't have explained it better myself!

The car in question won't be a daily driver by any means but I don't want to have to worry about bird poo eating into my paint because I never noticed it until the next morning...or the occasional -30F temps we get up here in the winter cracking the paint. I know that these two issues won't be a problem with acrylic enamel or BCCC but I don't know how well lacquer will hold up in those two senarios.

I know that acrylic enamel or a BCCC over lacquer primer is NOT recommended but on the other hand I know that it can work and that is probably because of your statement of "it may still be plenty good enough" All of my "toys that I did back in the mid eighties were finished with lacquer primer and then top coated with Dupont Centauri with the exeption of this Corvette...it got a Sikens BCCC. For the most part the paint held up very well. The paint did peel from a small area on one fender lip and it did have a couple door chips so I'd have to say that it was because of the lacquer primer that I used. Other than those things the paint held up very well in the 18 years that it was on the car. My brothers Camaro also has lacquer primer under Dupont Centauri and it still looks as good as the day it was painted so I know this combination will work on cars with limited use.

I'm back on the fence as to which paint to use though. Lacquer is way more labor intensive to apply than acrylic enamel or even BCCC and finding someone that knows how to spray lacquer hasn't been that easy...

Back to the durability question...

Now that I've provided a little more info and background what do you all think is more durable:

lacquer paint over lacquer primer?
or
acrylic enamel or BCCC over lacquer primer?

Thanks again,
Greg

AlexeiVT

02-28-2008, 09:24 PM

As far as the relative difficulty of anything to spray, I would actually think that lacquer for color would be the easiest (think "rattle can" type ease for similarity of comparison)...plus, the fact that lacquer (though the most solvent laden) flashes quick, spot repairs easily, and is basically applied w/ the understanding that a cut and buff will be done afterwards.

BUT, as far as terms of durability and hardness (which means less effort to maintain the shine, and greater chance of resisting things that would dull the gloss, eat the paint, or temp shock it) from least to best, it's lacquer, enamel, hardened enamel, and urethane.

If lacquer primer is left as the substrate, then it'd seem like using epoxy as a sealer would be the best bet to "lock" down that as best as can be done, and provide a uniform barrier to prevent anything from a urethane base affecting the lacquer...then followed by urethane primer, blocked out, then the bc/cc.

Like you stated, the combos can work, the products exist to intermix any possible approach against a recommended "systems" approach from bare substrate up...but again, thinking about the value of the project and what it costs to get there (and the goals, concourse resto vs. an easily maintained good looking finish on a nice driver) will dictate what to use.

Urethane you can polish it up after it's sprayed...and you'll have the least amount of time needed to invest over the long term, to keeping it looking good.

As far as chipping, that'd be a matter of proper application and prep of the materials, whatever they may be (as it can be done right or wrong, no matter what's being applied)...trick is, especially if you're finding someone else to do it, to make sure they know what they are doing...and arm yourself w/ the knowledge garnered here (hoping some other opinons of "old-timers" that shot back in the lacquer days, woud have better educated opinions on the intermixing {rather than just strip it and start w/ epoxy or polyester primers over the base, and go bc/cc}).

It's a toss up where you're at, since the bodywork and prep was done w/ lacquer...ideally, there's better stuff that could have been used...but on the flip side, lacquer has been around, and it serves as a good enough product if that's the case, when the finish is cared for...plenty of things have been shot w/ lacquer over time, and the finishes never jumped off like they do on Chrysler products of modern times =( ...just don't take the ride out from a heated 70 degree temp controlled garage, out for a ride in the 20's, and you should avoid cracking the finish.

But again, it's the time factor in applying lacquer, that will dictate how well it holds out for the long term (shoot some, give it time to gas off the solvents and shrink, THEN sand...and repeat).

lintmann

02-29-2008, 11:57 PM

Thanks again Alex.

This sure is a tough one to decide and I'm getting the feeling that lacquer paint over lacquer primer and catalyzed paint over lacquer primer are both at the lower end of the scale for durability. I wish I had known about the draw backs of lacquer primer before I carried on but this was how I did my cars back in the eighties and never had a problem so I figured that I'd do it the same way again. Guess I should have looked into what improvements have been made since the last one I did 18 years ago.

Whats done is done but what to do next is something I'll have to decide. I'll put it this way, given the temps that we get and the occasional bird dropping, which would you put over the lacquer primer? ...Lacquer paint or a catalyzed paint? I like the idea of lacquer paint but not it's durability so I'm leaning towards something like Centauri or a BCCC of some sort. This combination has worked on my brother's Camaro for the past 20years so if I can get 20 years out of my Corvette I'll be happy.

If I did however decide to go with a lacquer top coat what would be the recommended procedure? I commonly hear, spray two or three coats...wait a week and then wet sand with 600. Repeat this two more times with the final two coats wetter than the previous four or six. Then let it set up for a month before a light cut and buff. Is this about right?

Phil V

03-01-2008, 09:05 AM

The bottom line is you screwed up using lacquer primer. Because of that you limited your options. We went through this same subject a couple weeks ago and answered all your questions politely and in detail. Going over the same material over and over isn't going to make your decision any easier. The bottom line is because of the lacquer primer you are limited to lacquer paint, which is not as bad as previously discussed here. Lacquer paint will look great for many years if its washed and waxed regularly and buffed out with a fine rubbing compound once in a while. It will last for many years if its applied correctly and taken care of. Acryic enamel should not even be on the table for discussion or consideration. Acrylic urethane single stage and basecoat clearcoat CANNOT be sprayed over lacquer primer with any confidence that it will adhere properly to that lacquer primer. It could come off in sheets. I would be interested in hearing what the brand and product ID number is for the sealer you mentioned that goes between lacquer primer and a catalysed topcoat paint (I'm familiar with a couple and neither is a good choice in your case, too long to get into right now).

You asked for advice from the pro's - here it is - either strip off all the lacquer primer and start over again with urethane high build primer or leave the lacquer primer and paint the car with lacquer paint.

Len

03-01-2008, 11:35 AM

A lot of production shops use lacquer primer under urethane. What this buys them is a fast drying primer that can be used outside the spray booth without generating as much of a potential health risk as 2 part primers. However it just doesn't hold up as well but on a fiberglass car it won't be as big a problem as on metal. See picture of lacquer paint over lacquer primer below.

http://autobodystore.com/lac1.jpg

This picture shows what can happen over time to lacquer primer with lacquer paint on top over a metal surface.

If I were at the point you are now, with lacquer primer on a fiberglass car, I'd top coat it with a good urethane paint job. Don't use cheap materials get a good name brand and don't use their cheapest paint line. Apply enough top coat to allow you to sand and polish without sanding or buffing through the clear or color.

If you want a metallic and you want it to look original you'll need to use a single stage paint but if you want it to look it's best then bc/cc is the way to go. If it's going to end up a solid color then SS or bc/cc won't make much difference in the way it looks but clear holds up better to UV exposure.

lintmann

03-01-2008, 12:54 PM

Thanks guys...:o

So Phil what you are saying is that even though my old Sikens BCCC that was applied over lacquer primer lasted some 18 years and my brother's Camaro with Centauri over lacquer primer is still going strong, I am still better off using an "inferior" lacquer topcoat? I'm not questioning you...just trying to get this all clear in my head. If that's the case then I'm all for spraying lacquer for a topcoat. I was just starting to second guess my choice for a lacquer topcoat when I have had good experiences doing it all wrong. Dumb luck I guess...:dunce:

I know I screwed up by using lacquer primer. I wish I had found this site a few years ago before I finished the body work but I didn't...I WILL know better next time around.

Oh and the sealer that PPG says to use to cover lacquer substrates(or any basecoat that isn't crosslinked) is DPLF.

Now Len.

You say to carry on from where I'm at with a good urethane top coat which is pretty much the opposite to what Phil says and this is pretty much where a post that I started last fall on this left off...and probably why I'm still a bit confused because you both must know what you're talking about. My experience has shown me that doing it as you say will work and last but as Phil and others say is NOT a good idea and my intent of this posting wasn't to re-hash that debate.

Basically at this point all I would like to know is this....what's more durable over a lacquer primer? Lacquer topcoat or Acrylic Enamel/Urethane topcoat?

I'm starting to think that it will be the lacquer topcoat and if this is the case I'm set because my old BCCC over lacquer primer lasted just fine for how I used the car.

Oh and it probably doesn't matter but the color will be GM silver(code 14).

Phil, do you remember the thread that you mentioned of a couple weeks back? I did a search under lacquer and got quite a few hits so if you could help me narrow it down I'd appreciate it because I'd like to read it.

Thanks again guys.

Greg

Len

03-01-2008, 01:25 PM

Greg
Applying any paint on top of lacquer primer is like building a house on a poor foundation. Satisfactory results are achievable but they are less likely to last as long as when you have a good foundation.

Lacquer paint has many characteristics that contribute to earlier failure while urethane paint is engineered better to last longer. You can apply lacquer in a manor that helps it last but the application is so much trouble, and the benefits so limited, it almost always pay to go with urethane.

We used lacquer primers and top coats for 20 years (almost exclusively) but after the switch to urethane we never looked back. There are too many advantages to a good urethane paint that lacquer just doesn't have. However if you want to keep everything "original" then lacquer would be what the factory used so lacquer would be the logical choice.

If you decide to go with lacquer be sure to purchase at least two gallons of paint and two gallons of thinner (or even three of each) because it takes a lot of coats to make it right. If you go this route you should prep then spray a couple coats then sand, wait a few days then spray a couple more coats then sand and wait a couple more days then spray a couple more coats. This helps the finish hold up better but it sure increases the time and effort needed to do a decent paint job.

lintmann

03-01-2008, 02:31 PM

Thanks again Len...just one more question to help me understand something...

Lacquer primer is a poor choice and I get that part. I also understand from my post last fall why an acrylic enamel or urethane isn't supposed to work over lacquer primers. It just chips off or could be blown off if you're not carefull at the car wash and get the nozzel too close to a paint chip and this is because it doesn't really bond with the lacquer primer. The lacquer topcoat though does in fact bond with the lacquer primer....correct....?

In my mind that would make the lacquer paint over lacquer primer a better choice for the prevention of stone chips "getting away from you on a bad day at the car wash" so this would be a good thing for choosing lacquer. Now lacquer is rummored to have some bad points like not being able to handle bird poo and cracking. I can control the bird poo by wiping any off as soon as I see it but I can't control our sometimes -30F temps. I would never take the car out from a warm garage to these cold temps but would it just sitting in a cold garage like this cause lacquer to crack? My garage is heated but I usually don't bother in the colder winter months.

What I'm trying to weigh out is(assuming that the lacquer is properly applied in stages and left to gas out between coats) which method will be more durable over lacquer primer, lacquer paint or a catalyzed paint.

Maybe it would be easier to look at it this way...which turtle is the fastest?:D

Steve g

03-01-2008, 03:20 PM

I have seen lots of high quality lacquer paint crack on fibreglass cars (mid year corvettes) sitting undisturbed in unheated garages in Winnipeg's winters (-30 and colder). I can't speak to the adhesion issues, but others have covered it off quite well. It's all about risk management and picking your poison. At this point you have no ideal solution, other than to strip the primer off. No one will be able to tell you whether there is a higher likelihood of urethane peeling off the lacquer or the lacquer top coats cracking and blistering. Both are very real likelihoods, neither a certainty.

If it were my car I would go with the lacquer, only so that I would at least have a correct "period" looking finish for as long as it lasts. Whatever happens with either topcoat requires the same remedy, stripping it to glass and starting over,
Steve g

AlexeiVT

03-01-2008, 10:30 PM

I'm almost afraid to chime back in on this thread...

But, considering that there are always differing opinions and options on how to go about things from here, it seems like you still have them.

Realizing not stripping back to bare substrate aside...whatever you do (even by your own observation of Centari over lacquer primer) is likely to give you 2+ decades when cared for (also, not sure exactly how the Centari was mixed, as back in the day there were at least 5 ways to prepare it, but DuPont has since done away w/ some of the system components).

Consider this, if the PPG (I've not used that line) DPLF epoxy primer, lists lacquer as a suitable substrate, then just go for that as a sealer, then continue on w/ urethane primer, and a urethane base and clear.

Figure that since the bodywork is finished, the primer has been on there for a good amount of time and given up most of solvents and more or less shrunk, becoming stable, that sealing w/ epoxy basically gives you that semi-impermeable layer of material that seperates old from new. Given that the lacquer primer has a decent tooth to it to receive the epoxy, the epoxy is basically a "glue" in that it'll stick quite well to a good variety of non-porous substrates, so, so long as it's spec'd for use over lacquer (comparably more porous than steel) and doesn't eat or lift it, it'll be as great a bond as you need to attach itself and make for a solid foundation...just verify w/ the P-sheet (or run it by PPG techline), that'll give you the options.

When paint chips...it's generally, but not always, the base letting go from the primer (the primer stays in tact)...w/ proper prep, that should be less of an issue ("if" the epoxy stays stuck to the lacquer already on there, then everything else just proceeds like a "traditional" modern day approach...i.e. the epoxy is the barrier coat over the existing finish).

I'd say, if stripping it off and starting is NOT and option, and you do want the "BEST" finish, then if finding a way to incorporate the epoxy in there, gives you that option, to proceed w/ a urethane topcoat (at least you'll have known you did the best in terms of durability of material).

Some of these considerations, are best asked..."how much of a difference will this make 20-30 years from now?"...it might not make much of a difference (and, at least you're working over fiberglass, where even if the surface is compromised, you wont be left w/ rotted out panels if something fails prematurely as if it were steel)...and hey, by then, when the finish has held up a good many years and you're too tired to fuss w/ stripping and prepping for re-work yourself, you'll be happy to pay someone using the next greatest, and as of yet not-invented, technology to bring it back.

I know I'm all about DIY for my ride...but 50 years from now, I may just be happy w/ the idea of someone else doing it (and hopefully parting w/ the $...then it may be less of an issue for something I drove for 1/2 a lifetime.)

...the other fly in the ointment...is that lacquer "will" work...it has and still will (there was an old time when that was the norm, so it was reasonable based on expectations of the day)...nowadays, the expectation is something to look great all the time, w/ basically nothing being done to it (that's the benefit of urethane).

No easy answer, decisions, or opinions...I sympathize w/ you...(for what it's worth, there always seem to be those parts of a car that find themself receiving lacquer primer as a substrate...I primed my headlight grills w/ them and used aerosol Argent silver enamel over them, just wasn't justified at the time to spent the $ in "good" paint for such a small surface area. That area may be out of the sun and bird fallout, but as far as sandblasting while driving, it's out there waiting for a beating. If I were to do it again {or redo it whenever the time comes, realizing just hoiw much is invested overall}, I may opt to use better materials {though I'm sure the repros that cost a small fortune, aren't using top quality materials, let alone urethane...but nevertheless, they'll hold up for a while, even longer when pampered}).

Like I said, IF that epoxy can be used to bond and seal to the lacquer...than doing that and then proceeding w/ urethane, will give you better durability over the long haul.

Phil V

03-01-2008, 10:45 PM

Lintman, sorry if I was a little testy earlier. You have some valid concerns and you're faced with some difficult decisions that you will have to live with the outcome of those decisions for years to come. You have mentioned "durability" several times in connection with helping your decision making process. Durability is a relative term and an ambiguous term. As long as the lacquer primer is in place then you have to accept some trade offs with the end product. Acrylic enamel was in almost all cases back in the '70's and early 80's sprayed over lacquer primer, many times with disastrous consequences. I have stripped that paint off of several whole cars with a simple razor blade in one hand and an air blow gun in the other hand. Strip a whole car in around an hour because the catalysed acrylic enamel adhered so poorly to the lacquer substrate. It would be the exact same effect by putting urethane single stage or BC/CC over that same lacquer primer. As with most things connected to painting - nothing is ever simple and straight forward. The thicker the primer the more that primer will absorb the reducers from the enamel/urethane (or thinner from the lacquer paint) then the more thinner/reducer will have to off gas and the longer it will take for that soaked up primer to off gas. What that means in real life terms is the less thick the lacquer primer the less adhesion problems you will likely experience and of course vice/versa for obvious reasons.

If I were faced with your situation I would spray one coat of lightly reduced epoxy primer over the ready to paint lacquer primer then wait close to 24 hours (assuming the epoxy has a recoat window of 24 hours) then spray on another coat of lightly reduced epoxy primer. Let that set for again close to 24 hours but not outside of the epoxies recoat time window. Next use a catalysed basecoat like PPG DBU, spray a medium light coat of the silver basecoat and let it sit for at least 15 - 20 minutes then another coat. Wait another 15 - 20 minutes and spray your next coat. keep repeating that process until you're satisfied the silver has good enough coverage, no tiger striping and no mottling. Up to this point one of the focal points is NOT applying the basecoat wet where the reducers could penetrate through the sealer coats of epoxy and get soaked up by the lacquer primer underneath. Let that final coat of DBU sit in an at least 70 deg.F. for at least an hour (gives the DBU activator/hardener time to do its thing and work as another barrier coat). Spray urethane clearcoat with the first coat medium wet, let sit for at least 20 minutes to a half hour followed by the next coat a little wetter than the first. Wait another half hour and do your third coat of clear (sacrificial for wetsanding and buffing). That method would be the best of both worlds still working with the lacquer primer. You will notice that is not necessarily the materials but how those materials are applied is what will make the difference in the long run in reference to adhesion, die-back, shrinkage etc.(kept to a minimum).

Henry

03-01-2008, 11:05 PM

I while back I had a posting asking about lacquers and got a ton of good info but as I get closer to "paint day" I find myself second guessing myself....

Here is the deal.

The car is a Corvette and it's all finished in red oxide lacquer primer and with a light scuff sand it will be ready for the topcoat. Now I was originaly going to put a single stage acrylic enamel top coat on until I learned here that that is a big no no because the top coat won't properly bond to the lacquer primer. Okay...so then I seriously looked at using a PPG lacquer topcoat which from an originality stand point would be my preference anyways. The bad part is all the negatives that go along with lacquer with the biggest concern of which is the durability.

Right now I'm thinking that neither are good for durability....

Now here is my question. What would be the most durable, acrylic enamel over lacquer primer OR lacquer paint over lacquer primer? I can't imagine the adheasion of the acrylic enamel to the lacquer primer being less durable than all the bad hype I've heard about lacquer paints but what do you all think?

PPG makes a sealer that is supposed to cover lacquer primers so that you can then top coat with a acrylic enamel so I'm starting to lean in that direction but I'd like your thoughts on it first.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Greg
We always have options. You can sand the lacquer primer off relatively easily if you are convinced it should not have been used.
IF, and I say IF, because there is no lacquer legally for sale in my state, but if you could get lacquer then go with it.
If you want bc/cc then go with that OVER the lacquer primer; no sealer needed to try to cover your mistake.
You could go with SS URETHANE and NOT AE - Acrulic Enamel.

I respect the opinions of my friends on this board telling you that lacquer primer under bc/cc or SS U will fail, but I don't agree from what I've been seeing where I am. At least 50% of the shops near me STILL use lacquer as their primer and topcoat completes and blends with bc/cc or SS Urethane. I cringed when I've seen guys do it but have to tell you over 12 years of watching at about 5 busy shops and seeing many of the cars at this time, I have to say the paint still looks great on cars kept up and those not so kept up. Seeing is believing and that's what I have to offer to you.
Of course, you need to consider what type of car you are doing as well. If you were doing a daily driver Escort then AE for $300 from Maaco looks exceptional - but DUDE, you are doing a VETTE!!!!! Please do not use acrylic enamel on that car. Henry

lintmann

03-02-2008, 02:52 PM

You know I have to thank all you guys for taking so much time to advise me on what to do. Phil no need to apologize for being testy because I never really took it that way. I appreciate your "straight up" answers just as much as the others.:)

At this point I'm still undecided on if I'll use lacquer or an acrylic enamel like Centari but I see that there is a good chance that I'll have an option if need be. BCCC might also be an option but I'll have to double check with the NCRS guys to see what kind of a point hit I would take. From a durability stand point though, it sounds like lacquer might just be all I need on a fiberglass car that will see minimal use. Lacquer would be a lot easier for me to spray and touch up down the road so that is a big plus never mind that it WILL look correct on a old Corvette. I'm not concerned with having to buff it to keep the shine but the worry of it cracking because of the cold temps is of concern.

I suppose though just to be safe I should block out most of the existing lacquer primer so that I end up with a very thin layer of primer remaining and then spray on the PPG DPLF epoxy primer as per Phil's directions. This would then give me a good base to carry on and choose which ever paint I wanted.

I also seem to remember seeing some place that it's actually better to spray a lacquer topcoat over an epoxy primer because the thinners won't penetrate down into the primer and the finished product will have a better and longer lasting shine....does that sound right? Please correct me if I'm wrong but this approach should also greatly reduce the chances of it cracking in the cold because it would only have a thin layer of say 4-5 coats of lacquer over the epoxy primer?

Henry

03-02-2008, 10:01 PM

Steve g

03-02-2008, 11:36 PM

PLEASE - NO Centari on that car. If you want that type paint, then just bring the thing to Maaco now in fully prepped form.
Who filled your head with the 'cold' will crack lacquer? That's nonsense.

If you are going a solid color, I would consider SS URETHANE. Shame on you if you put AE acrylic enamel on that car. Henry

Henry,
Cold won't cause the lacquer to crack, but as the finish ages any of the extremes you expose it to will contribute to it's failure. Not sure where you hail from (wish people would actually fill in the location on their profiles), but temp changes from +40 C(over 100 in your funkenheight scale) in the summer to -45 or lower in the dead of winter in middle Canada certainly push failing paint to it's limit. I can show you pics of lacquer cracks on a friends 66 coupe that weren't there in the fall when he put it in the unheated garaged nicely wrapped in it's car cover that were there in the spring when he removed the cover. Now, I know that's not proof positive the cold did it, but given that the car was not moved, touched or even bumped during that time I suspect that the contraction in the cold contributed to it. I don't have the cars anymore, but I had seen it on some of my own mid years as well.

Cold is a relative term. If you've never experienced -45 it's hard to fathom the effects it has. Cars won't start without block heaters plugged in. If you've got a standard and you let the clutch out quickly with the trans in neutral, the thick oil will stall the engine. Start off down the road and your tires are thumping because of the frozen flat spot where it was sitting. No, it can be pretty hard on equipment.
Steve g

wblynch

03-03-2008, 02:47 AM

Greg, you can download the NCRS scoring sheets at the NCRS.org site.

You'll find that there are 170 possible points for paint. If they detect anything wrong with the SHADE of color or the SIZE of the metallic flake you will instantly lose 1/2 of the points - basically all of your originality points. That's 85 points.

You might pass a local judging but your car will be more heavily scrutinized at the regional and national meets. At the regionals and nationals they bring out panels painted in the original paint that they hold up to your car.

You will also lose your originality points if it appears you used a Base Coat/Clear Coat paint. Key word is "appearance". It must appear like original lacquer, applied in the factory manner.

From everything I've learned, I think you can get away with a BC/CC as long as it doesn't appear thick and over polished. In my estimation, thin and cheaper clears may be a better choice for NCRS judging. The thick, "glamor" or "euro" clears will certainly appear too thick and poured on.

They look closely at edges and crevices, especially in the hood drip rail, for overly thick paint since original lacquer is very thin and those edges would be well defined.

Keep in mind that the door jambs, hood drip rail and the drip rail under the convertible deck lid all need to be dull since the factory did not polish those areas. On my car I plan to flatten the clear 30-50% in the jambs.

For maximum NCRS points, paint can be a scary thing. The worst part is no one will really tell you exactly what to do to get the maximum points.

Silver is a difficult color so be careful with what you do choose if NCRS judging is your goal.

lintmann

03-03-2008, 12:13 PM

Sorry Henry but I thought that centari was a good quality paint or are you saying to not use ANY acrylic enamel paints? The reason that I was considering it was because that is what my brother has had on his camaro(over lacquer primer) since 87 and it still looks like the day it was painted. Mind you it is a solid red and my corvette will be silver... I'll have to double check but I'm pretty sure that was what some of the NCRS guys say to use if you are going to use a paint to mimic lacquer.

The cold cracking was what I was concerned about because it can get cold here just like Steve says with the flat spot tires and all! I would be just as concerned about extreme hot temps as well but it never gets much above 85 or so here so that shouldn't cause any issues.

I think I should stay away from BC-CC because it would be a lot harder to make it appear as original lacquer. A clear lacquer over lacquer paint might be okay because it would be thin like the base but a AE or Urethane clear might be too obvious. I watched some of the exterior judges at a meet once go over some cars and they were almost done when when one noticed some clear sagging on the drip rail for the engine compartment. That was a dead give a way that the paint had a clear on it but because the rest of the car looked correct with flattened jambs and so forth it still got a pretty high paint score.

I personaly do not have the experience to make any paint other that lacquer look like lacquer and I really want to spray this myself. I just really started to question the durability of lacquer so I thought that maybe I should just get someone to shoot a more modern paint on it and be done with it... but I can just imagine the dollar figure on that when I say that I want it to look like lacquer:rolleyes:

Anyways my initial question was basically which is more durable...... I can see that it's very subjective and probably a moot point for a car like this. Once again I learned a lot from you guys and now I have some other question brewing in my head but that's for another post.;)

Cheers:D

dave_demented

03-03-2008, 03:39 PM

on my dad's 59 vette, which is duntov certified, he painted it with some original factory lacquer that he was able to locate somehow. The shop that did it put some clear on the car as well. 20 years later, the car still looks way too shiny(apart from some very mild checking which you need to be in the perfect light and at the perfect angle to see) and my dad lost most of his points on the fact that the car was too shiny. If you are going to clear it, i recommend don't make it as shiny as someone would on their new hot rod. if there is any discrepancy about the car being cleared, they WILL bring out buffing compound and buff a spot towards the bottom of the car to see if any color comes off.