long sob story ....

[rebeldart]

I’ll keep it short as I can - I had my car painted this weekend, I didn’t check the guy out because the paint job was a freebie through a friend of mine who owed me, he had a friend that ran a small shop and has been painting for over thirty years. I bought the materials and trailered the car to the body shop where I found a dimly lit “booth” and a pretty dumpy shop. I prepped the car myself over the last year or so - it’s straight and looks great EXCEPT - the man couldn’t shoot silver, he mentioned it was tough (that should have been my warning sign) had I gone with a solid - I’d be a real happy camper - the clear laid on heavy and nearly no orange peel - would be cutting’ and buffin’ this week, it looks that good. I was there with the car all day and helped where I could - after he was done and called me in to take a look - I saw the cloudiness right away. I picked it up yesterday in the sun, and ouch, get the angle just right and it’s bad. I think he knows it - no way he couldn’t see it, but it was a favor so I just brought it home. The pieces he sprayed in full sun (valances, core support, bottom sides of hood and trunk - all look great, I think that lousy booth and lighting were one of the problems. It’s not even a heavy flake, very fine Mercedes silver metallic. I have no choice but to find someone who can shoot . My question is regarding prep for what I need done - obviously all the way around with the exception of roof (vinyl top car) and engine bay (looks fine) do I let the clear set up a week or so and then wet sand with 600 where all will be re-shot ? Do I need to block or can I use a D/A ? The clear’s on thick so I’m safe as far as sand-through issues. Product was Nason base and Transtar Euro clear. Again, if it were a solid it’d be a great job, how does a man shoot for over thirty years and not be able to lay down a metallic ? No “tiger stripes” but the “cloudiness” reminds me of the many guide coats I shot with spray bombs, I’ve seen this on other cars and I know you experienced guys will know what I’m referring to (as well as what caused the issue) Thanks for your help on my next steps. What’s done is done so I don’t need scolding or shoulda’s, yes I am considering painting myself eventually - I’ve done everything but shoot color on my two projects I’ve done - just don’t have the nerve yet to shoot base/clear, but I will eventually. I know Nason ain’t the best, but imagine if I’d spent 5-600.00 on Chromabase and had this happen ! I’m only looking forward - and I wan’t to get it re-done ASAP. Thanks, and yes, I’ve learned a lesson - see the guy’s work first, never assume experience means quality (I could tell you another story about clear coat peeling, but that’ll be another post). Thanks again for advise regarding prep.

[Henry]

I've read your post 3 times and am getting somewhat of an impression that what you are calling cloudiness may be inconsistent stray in the silver base color. I would be sure your base color and layout of the metallic is perfect before you sand and recoat the clear.
Rod, within the past couple days, has posted about reclearing (flowcoat) on his vette. You can read his posts and all the replies he got to help you out. I'm sure others will chime in. Henry

[rebeldart]

We are talking the base coat being the issue - not the clear. I'll be starting from square-one. Should I wait to sand (clear is pretty heavy), should I 400 since I'll be going with a solid for the re-shoot, and can I still Scotchbrite those tough areas (jambs, trunk, engine bay ? I'll take all the advise I can get - as said, had it been a solid - he would have been fine - terrible thing to have to do, just shoot me.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

OK, what's done is done. Here's how to get ready for rebasing. Get a box of 3M 800 grit Trizact and a Hookit II pad and also a Hookit II Interface pad for the curvy parts of the car for your DA. This is a much better way to go than finishing film or wet sanding for this type of application. This is used moist not super wet. No water running on the floor just a misting bottle. Go over everything the DA can get to with the 800 Trizact and the DA. Any DA will work, even the $50 Campbell Housfeld at Wal-Mart. Then use a gray Scotchbrite pad and scuffing paste on the rest of the stuff. All you need to do is remove the gloss. I consider the scuffing paste mandatory as it gets into places the pad alone can't and it greatly increases the effectiveness of the pad. If also cleans the surface very well. It acts like Comet cleanser and for this purpose that's exactly what you need. When done wash the car very carefully and now you're ready to reshoot.

Use R-M, Glasserit, ChromPrimier, Chromabase or PPG DBC for your basecoat. Nothing else. Cheap basecoat and silver don't mix. You can save all the money you want on clear and primer, this stuff is fairly generic, but basecoat is the one item where you get what you pay for and in spades with silver.

[rebeldart]

That's what I need to hear - thanks a bunch. I actually have an el cheapo D/A in air, and one electric, both accept the hookit's. I'm assuming the paper and the paste (never used that) can be had at a supplier. My only other regret (as if I dcouldn't list enough ) : I've read the least amount of material on the metal the better, obviously I've got 5-6 coats of asst material on here now, and going to add two or three more ! The D/A won't affect the "flatness" of my sfinished surface (blocking would be better, or block once after all is D/A'd?) Thanks again everyone.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

They might accept Hookit they will not accept HOOKIT II which is reversed meaning the hooks on on the paper and the fuzz on on the pad. 3M, in order to screw you, only makes Trizact available in HOOKIT II. Same is true for the interface pad.

[Steve g]

That's what I need to hear - thanks a bunch. I actually have an el cheapo D/A in air, and one electric, both accept the hookit's. I'm assuming the paper and the paste (never used that) can be had at a supplier. My only other regret (as if I dcouldn't list enough ) : I've read the least amount of material on the metal the better, obviously I've got 5-6 coats of asst material on here now, and going to add two or three more ! The D/A won't affect the "flatness" of my sfinished surface (blocking would be better, or block once after all is D/A'd?) Thanks again everyone.
I too would be concerned about the film build,depending on where you started from and the value of the project. But as you remove more material, especially with a da you run the risk of getting waves. If I were going to get more aggressive and remove some of the film build I would consider blocking after or removing it with a coarse paper on a block. The other concern with removing more material would be breakthroughs to the base. If the base is catylized it's not an issue, but if it isn't you could have issues with the fresh base lifting or wrinkling the first base coats.
Just another opinion.
Steve g

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

That's why you don't want to get aggressive with "removing" the paint that's on there now. P800 Trizact on a DA using an interface pad isn't going to take much off. It's sole purpose to to create tooth for the new base. Ideally we don't want to take anything off. That's why the scuffing paste is great, it gets to tooth created without the need for hard sanding.

If you have Mike Lavallee's True Fire video look at the black Ford Coupe that his boys prepared prior to his "lighting her up" with the True Fire. The sanding job they did on what was just about a perfect black paint job is exactly what I'm talking about trying to achieve. Don't block, don't sand, don't try to do anything other than remove the gloss. That's it. Get rid of the gloss and STOP. The more you screw with this the worse it will turn out I absolutely guarantee it. Remove the gloss and shoot.

You're screwed now. Try to get cute at this stage and you'll be super screwed. Look, you've got enough paint on it now to be slightly concerned but there is no need for panic. You dog it this next time and it's strip to bare metal. In the strongest terms possible I'm telling you to remove the gloss and redo it. Get cute and it's 80 grit time. I've been there and done that. Scuff and shoot.

[recoatlift]

in terms of getting the best adhesion over a prepainted surface. if you leave an area shiney, u'll more than likely have an adhesion prob there. get rid of all the gloss. use a mild pre-cleaner to remove sanding residue, tack it, tack it, & then re-tack it.

[rebeldart]

Thank you all , very much. I will be going with a solid for the re-do - may even shoot it myself.I was assuming I'd wait awhile before sanding, seems I'd want to be sure all curing/shrinking is done ?

[wblynch]

I know Nason ain’t the best, but imagine if I’d spent 5-600.00 on Chromabase and had this happen !


Definitely a sad situation. All that hard work. Damn!

But from what I've read and heard, this wouldn't have happened with the $600 Chromabase.

I need to learn fast too since my project car will be painted either silver or silver-blue.

Good luck and post some pics.

[recoatlift]

$600. chroma or $30. enamel. how many times does a 'freebie' break the bank. yeah, a ton of work for the righteous person.....just another schlock job for the dirtball. man i hate that! "obla de, obla da, life goes on."