I've done a search on compressors, but still have some questions. (1st post)

[Larry Hampton]

First, I want to apologize for the novel. My previous air compressor was a Craftsman 6hp, 60 gal. direct drive, I bought it used, learned my lesson, and was lucky enough to sell it for what I had in it. I know that I want a somewhere around 1750 rpm motor. I don't know if this matters, but I'm in the Oklahoma City metro area.

I'd love to buy a Belair, but I just don't have the budget for it and I'd have a hard time justifying it. My budget ceiling would likely be $1000 and I'll bet I'll have a hard time justifying that with the wife anyway. Single income family with 3 kids ranging from 5-13 on a draftsmans salary and all. Plus, I'm a hobbyist, I'm not needing this to make money, but if something comes around and I end up where I can, when this one wears out, I'll buy something nicer.

I've got the wife talked into this one that they carry at Sam's Club, it's a Delta 2 stage, 80 gal. and puts out 16 scfm @ 90 psi and it's priced right at $767.46.

I've also found a couple at Tractor Supply, both Ingersoll Rand, a 5hp, 80 gal., 17.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230V Two-Stage 11.8 H.P. Peak 175 Max. P.S.I. On-Site Service for $999 and a 5hp, 80 gal., 18.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230 Volt Single-Stage 135 Max. P.S.I. for $742.38.

I don't know who makes the Delta compressor, I don't find it on their website, but I'm pretty sure Ingersoll Rand is a good quality compressor. Both Sam's and Tractor Supply are local to me, so no shipping. I like the single stage IR, heck I'd take any of the three.

I was wanting one that put out pretty good scfm for doing some media blasting. I got to thinking, my neighbor catty-corner across the street has a big industrial air compressor (with like 1 1/2" air hose) and a 600# pressurized pot that he does blasting with. He has the fresh air hood and comprssor and suit and all and he said I can use it if I buy my own media and supply the diesel. (I don't want to get into experience, warpage, materials when blasting, I know all about the pitfalls...) So if I end up doing any blasting, it'll likely be in a blast cabinet so it probably won't be a large part.

The other reason was that I understand a two stage compressor is better for painting, but now with the popularity of HVLP guns, I wasn't sure that it's that necessary anymore, but I posted this on the FordFE.com forum and it's now my understanding that they can use more.

I'm trying to figure out if I ought to just get a normal 5 or 6 hp 60 gal. upright single stage compressor that is an oil bath one and use the rest of the money to either buy a rotisserie or purchase the metal to build one myself. I've got a Whirly-Jig located for $600, but it has no castors or hydraulic rams. One of my friend's mother works at Lowe's and I can probably get her discount on a Kobalt, 13.3 SCFM @ 90 psi, 12,000 hour pump life, High output cast iron pump design, 3-year warranty on cast iron pump for $499, but I've read on here that a member had bad luck with one.

I only have one side of a two car garage to work in, so it's not like I'll be working on a bunch of different projects all the time. I just want to buy a good compressor that will last me several years. (if there is such a thing anymore, quality and reliability have seem to go by the wayside for the purpose of buying a new, whatever, everytime the old one goes out, sorta like a gas grille) I hope to add either a two car carport on the side of my garage (actually, a pass thru garage with doors on each end) or a 30'x30 min. up to 40'x60' shop in the back yard. I'm on an acre and a half in the country in a neighborhood with pretty lenient homeowners association rules.

I've got a few projects, but I'm not sure I'll ever do them all, but you never know what will come down the line. I have a '90 Isuzu Amigo that has a non-metallic paint that I plan to be my first paint job, if that proves successful, I have my 13 year old daughter's '90 Shadow that will recieve a metallic paint job with skunk stripes. I also have a '76 F-250 S/C longbed that I'm not sure whether I ought to just part it out or rebuild the 390, throw some paint on it and then sell it, it could be my first paint project. In the garage sits a '65 Mustang A-code coupe that I've owned since 1987 that needs a bit of rust repair and some body panel replacement. My other big project is my '63 Fairlane 2dr sedan that will be turned into a Nostalgia Super Stock car that I eventually plan on racing.

My neighbor with the blast rig plans on building a two car building that he plans to use exclusively as a spray booth, possibly this spring, which I'll help him on. And like his blaster rig, I'll likely have full access to this building.

I know you should get as much compressor as you can afford and that you should get more than you think you need. I was just wonder about the collective's thoughts on these compressors, or if there were any other suggestions that would be in the ballpark of these price wise. Also, if I were to look for something at like, an auction, what brands should I look for and which ones should I avoid? I could have gotten an industrial horizontal compressor from a buddy, but the tank was rotted out, which is why he replaced it. If I do buy one at an auction, what kind of costs am I looking at should the thing need rebuilding? I know about the magnetic starter prices and the motor prices, but I have no idea about costs related to getting the compressor head rebuilt.

I like to fully research things before I go about doing something about it and while I know, or have heard some things, I acknowledge I don't know everything. I tend to ask a lot of questions in a lot of different places and sort of base a decision on the popular answer. This has held pretty true for me in the past. I know to use the search feature before asking questions so I hope I don't ask any stupid questions.

Larry Hampton

[Phil V]

If you can't afford a Belaire compressor like Len sells then my next suggestion would be to hunt for a good used industrial rated compressor. They can normally be had for $500 or less and by far the best bang for your buck. Look for names like Quincy, atlas copco, Kellog American, Curtis, Ingersoll Rand (industrial, not the low end ones), Saylor Beale etc There are several more high end brands whose names escape me right now. Hunt for a 5 hp, 2-stage, 80 gallon tank model. Make sure it comes with the magnetic starter box which is absolutely necessary to run the compressor. Put a want ad in your local paper for a good used heavy duty air compressor. Also make sure the electric motor is 220 single phase and not a 3-phase motor. A good used industrial rated air compressor is much better value than a new Sears or Home Depot type compressor unit.

[Phil V]

A couple other points. That Sears direct drive diaphram type compressor you just sold is by far THE most obnoxious sounding type of air compressor I've ever been around. An acquaintance/friend wanted me to do some bodywork on his '51 Ford street rod (relatively small job) so we decided logistically it would be more covenient to do the work at his shop/garage. He had a similar sears air compressor to the one you just sold. Every time that thing turned on I couldn't wait for the da*&^%$n thing to shut off. I got the job done as quickly and as efficiently as I could and went back to my Quincy air compressor.


Also you heard right that most HVLP guns use more air than the older conventional high pressure guns. Case in point would be the Devilbiss Gti, excellent top of the line gun but it uses just short of 16 cfm of air. On the other end of the spectrum is the Iwata LPH400 LV which is a fantastic gun and it uses around 8 or 9 cfm at less than 20 PSI.

[X711]

Hi, for $1000 you can get a good new 80 gal or 60gal compressor.

I purchased the Kobalt 60gal $499 model at lowes and am very pleased with it.

From your post it sounds like the compressor will not get alot of use, so
overkill might not be such a good thing. You could use the additional money
to purchase an external dryer/water trap and perhaps a pro hvlp gun.

I use mine a few times a week, either painting or DA'ing it works like a champ and does not run out of air.

On a used compressor, I would not purchase one, there is no telling how
long it was in use. I draw the analogy "Second Hand goods, second hand problems"

><

[Larry Hampton]

A couple other points. That Sears direct drive diaphram type compressor you just sold is by far THE most obnoxious sounding type of air compressor I've ever been around. An acquaintance/friend wanted me to do some bodywork on his '51 Ford street rod (relatively small job) so we decided logistically it would be more covenient to do the work at his shop/garage. He had a similar sears air compressor to the one you just sold. Every time that thing turned on I couldn't wait for the da*&^%$n thing to shut off. I got the job done as quickly and as efficiently as I could and went back to my Quincy air compressor.

You're not kidding Phil, I had it in a little one car garage in a small house we were renting about 8 years ago. If it was dead quiet in the garage and that thing kicked on, it'd scare the bejeezus out of you. Since it was a rent house and the breaker box was clear on the other side of the house, I had to do some creative wiring. When you went into the house from the garage, you went thru the utility "room", which had the dryer on the outside wall and the washer on the inside wall with the 40 gal. water heater in the "cabinet" above it, 3 feet later, you were in the kitchen. I bought another dryer cord and two plugs, a couple of 2 gang boxes with appropriate covers and procured some large wired romex from somewhere. I put one outlet on the wall where you went out into the garage and ran a dryer cord from it to the outlet, the dryer was plugged into this new outlet, when it was unplugged, my wife knew I was either using the compressor or the Lincoln stick welder. I ran the romex to the back of the wall up under the cabinet above the dryer and ran it thru the wall, then back along the wall to where it backed up to the first outlet I mounted. I hard wired the compressor into the outlet and could plug the welder in when I needed it. But I had to remember to switch the compressor off, when I didn't, it always seemed to need to kick on at about 3 a.m. and even though my bedroom was at the other end of the 900 s.f. house, it still shook the whole house and made you sit straight up in bed. I only ever tripped the breaker once, when I forgot to shut the compressor off and was using the welder to C-notch a frame on a truck I was lowering.

Larry Hampton

[Phil V]

And my analogy would be a good used Rolls Royce is a much better value than an new piece of crap Yugo.

I have been around air compressors just about every day for the last 35 years of doing this work for a living which puts me in a unique position of having hands on knowledge of air compressors in general. I'll say it again, a good used industrial air compressor is a much better value for your dollar thany buying a throw away compressor like from Home Depot, Sears or Lowes.

Just a couple points that I base this opinion on - I paid $1800 for my Quincy compressor 22 years ago. It has been in professional use just about every day since I bought it. All I've had to do to the air compressor is turn it on in the morning and shut it off when I'm done at night, that and an oil change every 2500 hours of use. I did change the electric motor about 4 years ago and later realized all it needed was a $40 part to put it back in service again. It has faithfully delivered the air with not problems for those 22 years. If I had bought a Home Depot or Lowes air compressor I would have had to replace probably 4 or 5 of them by now. Not to mention the down time while screwing around buying and setting up new replacement throw away compressors. Just the the Baldor electric motor on my compressor weighs 105 lbs without the double belt cast iron pulley. The motor lasted 18 years in a commercial environment and with that $40 part it will run for many more years to come. It draws upwards of 50 amps on startup and runs at around 25 amps continuous. The motors on the throw away compressors (like sears, home depot and lowes) weight around 25 - 30 lbs, 25 amps on start up and 17 amps continuous. Those motors with any use will last from 2 to maybe 3 or 4 years. Most of those thow away compressors are set up to run at 2,000 - 2500 rpm at the pump. My Quincy runs at around 900 rpm. My Quincy air pumps moving parts a finely balanced and it has an oil pump like on a car. It has an air/hydraulic unloader with an oil pressure valve where if the oil pump doesn't produce at least 15 psi of oil pressure then the air pump won't pump air (safety factor). The throw away compressors moving parts are lubricated by a "splash dipper" and the moving parts are not well balanced, so the vibrations along with the higher rpms will self destruct the air pump. Higher rpm equates to considerably more heat produced by the air pump which again contributes to the unit self destructing. The reason the cheap air compressors run a 2,000 - 2,500 rpm is because they pump more air obviously at that rpm compared to a quality compressor that runs at 1,000 rpm or less. I could keep citing the differences between an industrial rated air compressor and a cheap throw away compressor but you should be getting the idea by now.

Part of the point of this post is that top of line air compressors DON'T WEAR OUT like cheap throw away compressors. And I'll say it again, A GOOD USED INDUSTRIAL TYPE AIR COMPRESSOR IS A MUCH BETTER VALUE FOR YOUR MONEY THAT AN BRAND NEW HOME DEPOT, SEARS OR LOWES THROW AWAY COMPRESSOR.

[Roch_Greg]

I think all compressors are noisy. I rent a townhome and my one car garage is 120 ft from the house in the cul-de-sac. Inside is my small Belaire (27~30 gallon tank).

Well I mean to say when I crank that thing up dead people come around and ask can I keep the noise down.

I can actually hear it from my house. But I live in a very quiet suburb where you can't even hear traffic.

I think that by putting a running engine like that in an partially enclosed environment amplifies the noise.

[brucebotti]

There is nothing as loud as a direct drive oil-less compressor. Before I upgraded to a professional grade IR 5hp two stage, I had a Sears 6.5hp(supposedly) 33gallon oil-less compressor. I would find myself tensing up waiting for it to turn on. Everytime it turned on it would scare the heck out of me. I finally sold it and warned each prospective customer that I was selling it because it was too loud.

My IR is a little loud, but not too bad. I love the sound of the old Quincy's running at low rpms. Reminds me of my gas station days of my youth when they used to actually work on cars!

Bruce

[Phil V]

Bruce, I have the air inlet for my Quincy piped up into the attic of my shop using 2 1/2" PVC pipe. I can stand next to the compressor and have a conversation while its running, its that quiet/less noisy.

[Preston Herrick]

Not to hijack, but I'm considering one of these at a local farm supply.

http://www.eaglecompressor.com/_egl08whl13dl04ctnt61/products/compressors/eagle/single_stage_150/C5160V1.html

A search for used has turned up empty around here. The one above (about $700), though single stage, looks like it would do the trick.

[Phil V]

Preston, The statistics for that Eagle air compressor actually look pretty good. I have no idea of how well its built but it should get the job done for a few years.

[Larry Hampton]

The motor RPM on that Eagle is 3600 RPM, I thought a high RPM motor was a bad deal.

I think I have my wife talked into the IR SS5L5, it's a single stage, 135 psi, but puts out 18.1 cfm @ 90, they have it at Tractor Supply for $742.

I just got off the phone with a buddy that works (until Friday) at a place here in OKC that sells industrial air compressors and he gave me the name of a lady I need to talk to about some compressors they've had around for a while that she maybe could get me a deal on one. I'm hoping they'll have a repo or something and I can move up for not much more $$$.

This is a great forum, I look forward to more searching and more questions.

Larry Hampton

[Preston Herrick]

Larry, yes the motor runs at 3600 but the compressor runs at 1230. I took the plunge and bought the thing (side note: good idea to confer with wife first) :)

It'll be a couple of days before I can get it installed but I'll try to report on performance. The components "appear" to be HD and of quality - better than what I've seen at the big box stores. And, it won't see anywhere near daily use.

[Roch_Greg]

I've heard of Eagle b4 and everyone who uses them has never had any complaints.

Let us know how things work out.

[70chevelle]

I've got the wife talked into this one that they carry at Sam's Club, it's a Delta 2 stage, 80 gal. and puts out 16 scfm @ 90 psi and it's priced right at $767.46.

I've also found a couple at Tractor Supply, both Ingersoll Rand, a 5hp, 80 gal., 17.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230V Two-Stage 11.8 H.P. Peak 175 Max. P.S.I. On-Site Service for $999 and a 5hp, 80 gal., 18.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230 Volt Single-Stage 135 Max. P.S.I. for $742.38.

Larry Hampton

Larry, I was in the same position as you about 15 years ago. I jumped in and bought a Craftsman oilless compressor, when I started restoring my Chevelle. Within the first year, it was garbage. I fought with Sears for a while and amazing enough, I got my money back. Anyway, I then bought a 5 hp 60 gal upright single stage Sanborn compressor that put out about 11 cfm @ 90 psi. It has served me well. I sprayed a few overalls with it, it did what it was supposed to do, but it was working at it's max most of the time. I found a used 2 stage Speedaire compressor locally that I bought for $250 with an 80 gallon tank and a Champion pump last year. I refurbed it and it is a night & day difference between the two. I gave the Sanborn to a friend, who is using it as his main compressor for painting. That being said, my choices of what you have listed above would be as follows:

1) Rand, a 5hp, 80 gal., 17.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230V Two-Stage 11.8 H.P. Peak 175 Max. P.S.I. On-Site Service for $999 (If you can afford it you won't be sorry)

2) Delta 2 stage, 80 gal. and puts out 16 scfm @ 90 psi and it's priced right at $767.46. I bought my single stage Sanborn compressor from Sam's club, and it is still in great working order, never had a problem in 15 years. As I said, I am a hobbiest similar to you.

3) 5hp, 80 gal., 18.1 CFM @ 90 P.S.I. 230 Volt Single-Stage 135 Max. P.S.I. for $742.38. Even though the specs look good, I have a hard time believing that a single stage can produce that cfm. I would take a two stage over a single stage most times. I also believe that this IR is a 3450 rpm motor?

Good Luck!

[Phil V]

The rpm of a compressor motor is not important. What is important is the rpm of the compressor head (air pump). The only high quality air compressor manufacturer that produces air compressor that have a pump rpm of more than 1200 rpm is Atlas Copco and they run at around 1500 rpm. My Quincy is a little less than 900 rpm and some go as low as 650 rpm (around a 1,000 rpm is normal for a high end commerical/industrial piston type air compressor).

[70chevelle]

My concern about the motor rpm, not pump rpm, would be more for longevity and noise. Most of the better compressors I've seen have 1750 rpm motors. I do agree that the motor rpm wouldn't have an effect on the cfm produced given the same or similar pump rpm. (Ie: a 1750 rpm pump with a 2:1 pulley ratio would run around 875 rpm, to get the same 875 rpm pump rpm from a 3450 rpm motor, you would need a 4:1 pulley ratio).

[Preston Herrick]

Well, I got the Eagle compressor plumbed and wired in. I connected and tested almost every air tool I own from die grinders to DA's and it had no problem driving them continuously without a pressure drop. It runs surprisingly quiet, though I have no other frame of reference other than the 25 gal. Sears screamer (now 10+ years old). Recovery is very quick. Wish I had been in a position to upgrade a long time ago at the start of my project.

I continued by epoxy priming various parts. It sprayed like a whole different gun. I have to attribute part of that to a change from an air control valve at the gun to a true regulator. While I do believe you generally get what you pay for, so far I'm very pleased with the purchase ($700 and my wife is speaking to me again). And while it may not rank up there with the established higher-end industrial makes, it might be a good choice for the monetarily challenged.

[Dustin P]

Hey Preston, I bought a Eagle compressor a year ago, it's a 60 gallon, three cylinder single stage, five horses and 240 volts. I have never had a problem what so ever with it to date and use it regularly. I have it outside in it's own house (insulated) and don't find it noisy to the point people complain or the wife can't sleep. I paid around $900.00 Canadian for it with a 100ft hose, perssure reg and fittings.