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View Full Version : Treating rust with phosphoric acid other than Picklex?



myMustang
07-15-2007, 02:36 PM
Most of you guys seem to like the idea of treating rust with Picklex-20 and I'd like to try it, but I'd have to shoot somebody to get some without ordering off the 'net. I believe the active ingredient is phosphoric acid? If that's the case, I have some Naval Jelly I could use? Or is the Picklex special in some way?
Thanks
-Kyle

Brad-Man
07-15-2007, 03:19 PM
I have used OSPHO with good results - got it from NAPA - ~$28/Gal.

Lost in NJ
07-15-2007, 07:50 PM
Pickelx is not just phosphoric acid. It has some polymers that work along with the P acid.

If you try to work with plain phosphoric acid you will have rinse the surface and that causes problems in itself.

Seek out OSPHO. Read about it at the manufacturers website. There you will find you can purchase it at local stores. I have not used it, but it has been discussed elsewhere in a very positive light.

Remember to follow directions.

Roch_Greg
07-15-2007, 08:40 PM
Picklex-20's selling point (among others) is that it's more environmentally friendly to use than just Phosphoric or Muriatic acid.

When using both of those you have to "recover" the waste product and dispose of it according to EPA ordinances (read not allow it to enter the ground water, sewer systems, etc). This add's to the operational costs of shops that coat metal (which means they need to clean it first).

There is also the user friendliness of Picklex-20. I've gotten some on my hands and didn't even notice it, get one of those other acids on you and brother you'll notice it quick.

The last point I'll make is Picklex-20 cleans/treats metal as well as neutralizing/removing rust replacing two or three other steps in one bottle.

All that being said yes it is next to impossible to find locally and rather expensive.

What you use isn't as important as using the product and following the procedures for prepping the metal carefully.

Greg

nickp
07-19-2007, 03:36 PM
That heavy acid based rust treament can come back to bite your paint job in the butt if you dont totaly clean it aLL off and it leaches through. Picklex-20 is easier to clean off , less abrasive and can be used as a metal treatment too.

its worth the extra bucks.

schneider325
07-20-2007, 09:05 AM
wow so this picklex stuff is basicly an all in one product while por15 makes you buy two products to use before you even apply the stuff. Does picklex and por15 have the same results in the end?

ScotY
07-21-2007, 12:22 AM
Is Picklex safe to apply to good metal/paint without harming it? Can it be left on without rinsing/cleaning? Is it safe to spray? Can it be shipped via air? I looked at their website and they list just about everything but I couldn't find the application instructions. :confused:

What about Ospho? I've used that before and we never rinsed it off, but I don't think I'd want it dripping all around the inside of my truck.

Thanks, Scot

Len
07-21-2007, 07:36 AM
wow so this picklex stuff is basicly an all in one product while por15 makes you buy two products to use before you even apply the stuff. Does picklex and por15 have the same results in the end?

Picklex is a rust "converter" that makes the rust stable so that it can be primed and painted.

POR-15 is a coating that covers the unstable rust.

Len
07-21-2007, 07:40 AM
Is Picklex safe to apply to good metal/paint without harming it? Can it be left on without rinsing/cleaning? Is it safe to spray? Can it be shipped via air? I looked at their website and they list just about everything but I couldn't find the application instructions. :confused:

What about Ospho? I've used that before and we never rinsed it off, but I don't think I'd want it dripping all around the inside of my truck.

Thanks, Scot

Picklex can be applied to clean or rusted metal. It will protect clean metal from rusting if the metal is being stored. Picklex is non-hazardous and can be shipped via air mail. The pint size container comes with a pump sprayer and there is no rinsing required.

schneider325
07-21-2007, 10:42 AM
Picklex is a rust "converter" that makes the rust stable so that it can be primed and painted.

POR-15 is a coating that covers the unstable rust.

how would a picklex coating followed by ZR do? Would that be unncessasary or would it aid in extra prodection?

Bruce P
07-21-2007, 11:15 AM
.. an old brake rotor with Zero Rust over picklex-20 out in the weather for however long Len has been handling ZR. I am on the Pacific side of the Cascade range in Oregon where it rains and rains. The rotor shows no sign of rust coming through to this point.

The thing I don't care for with the conventional convertors is the layer of "stuff" left behind. I'm afraid that any time one gets a hole punched in a film of "whatever topcoat" over whichever convertor, the rust will blister sideways between the substrate and the convertor. Most of the convertors I have looked at seem to say "now that the conversion phase is complete, now seal it up.

Len, maybe showing the URL of the motor mounts on the saltwater fishing boat might point up some real life comparisons of products in use.....

Brad-Man
07-22-2007, 05:51 PM
OSPHO is a lot like Picklex in application - put it on, let it dry, remove any powder residue, then paint over it.

No need to rinse with water...

That said - I have both, and any exterior sheet metal will get Picklex.

My suspension, engine mounts and brackets and engine compartment are getting OSHPO and Zero Rust.

Already did the engine block - sand blasted it,
OSHO'd and Engine Paint. That paint is STUCK on there! I'm talking Duplicolor Ford Blue in the spray can.

ScotY
07-22-2007, 06:46 PM
Picklex is a rust "converter" that makes the rust stable so that it can be primed and painted.

POR-15 is a coating that covers the unstable rust.

Is Picklex more like Metal-Ready (POR-15's prep product)?

ScotY
07-22-2007, 06:54 PM
Picklex can be applied to clean or rusted metal. It will protect clean metal from rusting if the metal is being stored. Picklex is non-hazardous and can be shipped via air mail. The pint size container comes with a pump sprayer and there is no rinsing required.

I'm looking for a product (or products) to treat the insides of a window pillar. I can't see inside and won't really know the condition of the metal that needs to be treated (it's at the body shop now). I'm guessing it will be a combination of surface rusted spots, some areas still with original factory paint, and some areas with weld burns through the paint.

Since drying it thoroughly isn't really possible in this tight area, I need something that won't harm any good paint in there and will stop the rust from growing in the future. Also, it will be very difficult to rinse (and then there will be water in there that will probably never dry). To spray it, I will get an undercoating sprayer with flexible tube/nozzle and spray the product from the bottom. That means it's going to drip down onto my hands, and then into the interior of the vehicle.

Does Picklex sound like the best product to use? Should I follow up with some sort of paint like POR-15? Are there any better paints than POR-15 that can be shipped via air?

Sorry to hijack this thread with my questions. :o

Len
07-22-2007, 10:36 PM
Picklex is a rust "converter" not a coating that will protect the surface from moisture. My guess is that the pillar has little if any paint and any coating that you apply will help prevent problems later. Zero Rust works well but needs to dry and it's going to be diffcult to see how well the surface is coated in this type of structure. I usually recommend a coating of Picklex and Zero Rust for most underside and inside parts, this combo works well and doesn't cost as much as products that don't work nearly as well.


http://autobodystore.com/images/boattest.jpg

ScotY
07-23-2007, 12:42 AM
Hi Len,

Thanks for your opinion and advise.

Now, if I understand correctly, Picklex/Zero-Rust is the your recommended solution for MOST situations. However, being my rust problem is an area with no breathing space (difficult to dry out, impossible to tell if and when it's dry, etc.) and Picklex is water-based, I'm assuming the safest course of action is to just use Zero-Rust and hope for the best? Introducing Picklex may convert the rust but the residual moisture might just make it start all over again? And/or prevent the Zero-Rust from drying properly?

Where can I get some Zero-Rust?